UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #311
MORGAN, THEODORE

MORGAN, Theodore (1910-2009)
Professor of Economics
At UW: 1947-1980

Interviewed: 1985	
Series: Department of Economics
Interviewer: Julie Nelson   
Length: 1 hour

Wane of institutionalism in Economics Department in late 1940s; Inbreeding; New faculty and move toward econometrics; Changes in discipline of economics; Conflict in Department in 1950s; Arrangements with School of Commerce; Heyday of interest in economic development; Protest era; Time in Asia; Changes in faculty salaries; Changes in Department social life.

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:01	Preliminaries.

00:00:29	Department in 1947 was close to ideal size.  Is too big now. 

00:01:29	Waning days on Institutionalism.  Don Kanel might disagree.  Descriptive emphasis.  Look at the "bloody awful" facts.  Most Ph.D.'s .  In 1940s department was getting self-conscious--was "sticking behind?"  Loyal but uneasy support.  Inbreeding.

00:03:51	Blackie (Paul Theodore) Ellsworth from Oregon, Oxford, Rhodes scholar, Harvard, University of Cincinnati.  Brought here in International Trade.  Area where theory is necessary.  Early 1940s.  First break in the tradition.

00:04:45	He came in 1947, from Harvard.  Maybe the second break in tradition.  Jim Early "mixed case," studied here and LSE.

00:06:07	First came here to interview, fresh out of Harvard in 1942.  Taught one year at Randolph-Macon Women's college (one-man department).  Back to Harvard and taught.  Summer in Washington.  1947 here.

00:06:50	Candidates inspected for signs of idiocy.  Professors higher on social scale then.

00:07:41	1950s defensive view quote from paper about "instead of . . . from either Dan Kanel of Ken Parsons.

00:08:25	Move toward theory and econometrics.

00:09:09	Partly benevolent, partly idiosyncratic and pathological view of development.  Benevolent in desire to measure.  Criticism: seeking honorific lines of research.  Basic concepts often not congruent with data.  Unprecedented esoteric development of economics.  Academic pathology of refining on refinements.  Desperation for tenure.  But can make use of new tools and descriptive analysis both as far as you think they are useful.

00:12:35	Department expansion.  Sterling Hall, third floor.  Museum of physics delightful.  Building of Social Science Building.

00:14:30	Martin Bronfenbrenner, from Chicago.  Rough on the outside, nice on the inside, had grave doubts about institutionalism.  Ellsworth thought standards were not high enough.  One student threatened to commit suicide if not passed.  Bronfenbrenner left to go to Michigan State, Minnesota, Duke.  Married Japanese because "diligent wives?" Thought Japan could never feed itself because would never be able to export enough.

00:17:08	Gene Rotwein from Chicago.  More tolerant.

00:18:38	TM was viewed as promising when came.  Did Trade primarily.  Blackie and he introduced first development course (474).

00:20:58	Conflict over personality of Walter Morton.  Profane and loud in his conversations.  But couldn't be sure he was 100% wrong.  E.g. campaign against boxing.  Tense department meetings.  Witte was chair--probably injured his health.  When Ed Young was chair, meeting in President Fred's office when Morton was not in town.  Martin Glaeser, who tended to go along with Morton in most things, was there.  Afterwards, more equanimity from social pressure.  (Berkeley in comparison had almost total breakdown.  Brought in Andy Papandreo to soften the warfare.)

00:25:28	Alma Bridbman.

00:26:13	Expansion in 1950s and '60s.  Earlier, GIs.

00:27:24	Treaty with Commerce as to course.  Morton warrior for the department.

00:28:50	Liberal leaves granted.  Away himself seven times.  Quite a plus to life in the department.

00:29:45	Economics Department started course in 1953.  Fifteen years ago as many graduate students in that field as in all others combined.  Shrunk due to success of some countries in Far East, and partly through failures due to political and social reasons.  Field very small now.

00:31:30	Age of Disillusion 1967-1970.

00:32:05	Ebb and flow of conventional attitudes.

00:33:16	Getting tear gassed while bicycling.  Student politician’s speech on eighth floor about administration wickedness.

00:34:24	Aims now are practical.  Bureaucracy and committee work. 

00:35:56	On committee on Campus Peace while Ed Young was Chancellor.

00:37:25	Own activities.  Two years to Ceylon.  One and one-half years to Gajah Mada ("Wise Elephant") in Java.  Family adventure.  Trained a lot of people to be teachers or work in government.  Had some students come from Ceylon.  Worked in Singapore, Thailand, Kenya.  Asian Development Bank.  Going to East-West Center in Hawaii.  Went to England.  More coming and going than in 1940s.

00:43:30	Once met university president in Australia.

00:44:45	Teaching load less now--3 classes (9 hours) per week.

00:46:47	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:46:51	Faculty socialized more when he came.  Losing track of wives and husbands.  Rented house for this winter to member of department he didn't know.

00:48:36	"Benevolent generality of attitude to what has happened in the department."

00:49:01	End of interview.

END