UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #1227
RITCHERSON, LEWIS HENRY (Les)

RITCHERSON, Lewis Henry “Les” (1926- )
At UW: 1966-1990
as Assistant Football Coach (1966-1969); Assistant to the Chancellor of UW-Extension – Program Coordinator, Affirmative Action Office (1970-71); Assistant to the Chancellor of UW-Madison, Program Coordinator, Affirmative Action Office (1971-1990)

Interviewed: 2012 (3 sessions)
Interviewer: Troy Reeves and Greg Bond
Index by: Greg Bond
Length: 3 hours, 12 seconds.		

Abstract: In his 2012 interviews with Troy Reeves and Greg Bond, Les Ritcherson, an assistant UW football coach and a long-time UW affirmative action officer, discussed his career at UW-Madison, as well as, his days as a student, athlete, coach, and teacher in Texas.  Ritcherson began by discussing his youth in Waco, Texas; his college experiences as a student-athlete at Wiley College; and his coaching and teaching career at Midland High School and then at Waco’s A.J. Moore High School, where he won several state championships. He explained how he came to Wisconsin and discussed his coaching career in Madison. Ritcherson talked about the racial turmoil that beset the football program in the late 1960s.  He also discussed his career as an Affirmative Action Officer, first, at the UW-Extension and, then, at UW-Madison.

Keywords: University of Wisconsin Football Team; University of Wisconsin Athletic Department; University of Wisconsin Affirmative Action Office; University of Wisconsin-Extension; Affirmative Action; African-American Athletes; Discrimination in Sports; Wiley College; A.J. Moore High School (Waco, Texas); Waco, Texas.  

First Interview Session (April 25, 2012): Digital File

00:00:01	Start of Interview/Interviewers’ Introduction 

00:00:24	Question: Please say and spell your name. Answer: My name is Lewis H. Ritcherson.

00:00:44	Question: Can you talk about your childhood and your parents? Answer: Lewis Ritcherson (LR) began by clarifying his name and explained that sportswriters in Waco had nicknamed him “Les” Ritcherson, which is the name he used for coaching the rest of his career.  LR was born in 1926 in Hillsboro, Texas in Hill County, north of Waco. He recalled that his family was not poor and described how they would pick cotton on a sharecropper farm in the summer to buy school clothes for the rest of the winter.  He was born in Hillsboro while his mother was there to pick cotton.

00:03:08	Question: Talk a little bit about your parents? Answer: LR’s father died while he was young, and he did not have many memories of his father. LR was the second of three brothers, and all three brothers ended up playing football.  His father’s parents – Eugenia and John Ritcherson – pledged to help his mother raise the three boys, and LR remembered spending most of his younger days at his grandparents’ house.  John Ritcherson was a part-time farmer, who had acquired land around his house in Waco and grew corn, potatoes, and other crops and raised hogs that they would sell once or twice a year.

00:05:41	No question: LR recalled one anecdote about his father. He had bought his sons a football for Christmas, but as they were playing in the street with it, a neighbor’s car ran over it.  LR remembered being upset about the football, and his father reprimanded him and said: “We can get another football; it’s not the end of the world!”	

00:06:50	Question: Talk about your student days at A.J. Moore High School? Answer: LR recalled that A.J. Moore was the smallest school in the district, but that the principal wanted to compete in the highest division, so they counted all the students in the school from seventh through twelfth grades in order to qualify for the highest level of athletics.  LR thought that the coaches did not always like the arrangement, but the players enjoyed it, “because when you compete you want to compete with the best.”

00:09:01	Question: You played football in high school? Answer: LR played football only during his senior year in high school, because his parents hadn’t wanted him to play before that.  He recalled that the coach came to his house and took him to a doctor who cleared LR to play football.  LR considered this to be a “blessing,” because otherwise he would not have received a scholarship to go to college.  During that season, he was named the all-district defensive end, and A.J. Moore won the district championship. The school would not win another district championship until LR returned as a coach in the 1950s.

00:10:41	No question: LR talked about his first job after college teaching and coaching in Midland, Texas.  He coached the football team, and he recalled that the school was so small that he played quarterback for his own team under an alias.  He joked that it was his turn at professional football, but he gave it up when his colleagues pointed out that he had a family and no health insurance.

00:12:33	Question: Any other high school memories? Answer: LR talked about being a member of the debating team in high school, which resulted in the principal at Midland appointing him debating coach.  LR directed the debating team to the state championship inter-scholastic tournament at Prairie View A&M, and his team won the title. In response to a question, LR briefly discussed giving an oratory during his high school graduation.

00:14:45	Question: You received a scholarship to go to Wiley College? Answer: LR recalled getting a football scholarship worth $10 per month at Wiley, and he talked about his various summer jobs in Waco and Houston that helped him pay for college.

00:17:07	Question: Discuss you football career at Wiley? Answer: LR went to Wiley to play football, but when he got there the basketball coach also recruited him to play basketball. He played basketball and football for all four years and ran track for two years. He described his football career as “the most pleasant experience” he had at Wiley. He talked about playing football in the South West Athletic Conference and particularly his memories of Langston College being a tough place to play.  Wiley won several conference titles and won the national championship in 1945, beating Florida A&M – coached by Jake Gaither – in the Orange Blossom Classic bowl game.

00:19:43	Question: Any memories from that game or that season? Answer: LR remembered that “it seemed like I couldn’t miss a pass,” and he scored a touchdown in the bowl game. He thought that, because some of the better players in the conference had not had the opportunity to play in the bowl game, his performance helped him make the prestigious All-American team named by Fay Young of the Chicago Defender. In response to a question, LR remarked that “it was a big deal,” and recalled that the coach also gave the players $5 for their accomplishments.

00:20:57	Question: Your coaches were the Long Brothers - legendary black college football coaches. Do you have any memories of them? Answer: We called the head coach Fred Long, “Big” Long, and we called the younger brother, Harry Long, “Little” Long. LR called playing under the Long Brothers “a tremendous experience,” and he had much respect for them.  The players called Fred Long “Pop,” and LR recalled that Fred Long stressed conditioning, and he felt Wiley out-conditioned their opponents, which was a philosophy he carried over into his own coaching days.  He remembered that the team at Wiley would run before, during, and after practice, and he described how “Pop” Long would stand on the sidelines and yell, “Run! Run! Run! Run, until I get tired.”  The team would run from end zone to end zone, and “Pop” Long would say “everybody go!”

00:23:17 	Question: Other memories from Wiley? Answer: LR majored in sociology in minored in economics.  He recalled that when he taught at Midland, the principal saw chemistry and physics on his transcript and had him teach those subjects.  LR remembered “staying one page ahead of the students.”

00:25:25	Question: You met your wife at Wiley? Answer: LR did meet his wife in college, and she joined him in Midland during his second year there. They had a son during his first year in Midland, but she lived with her parents in Houston.  When she moved to Midland, the principal found a job for her teaching shorthand and typing after school.

00:27:12 	Question: Do you have a story about how you met your wife? Answer: LR met his wife at a campus hangout called the Wiley Wildcat. She was there with friends and he walked in with football players. She turned to her friends and told them she was going to “get” him.  She got her self introduced to him, and LR concluded that he “enjoys it to this day.”

00:28:57 	Question: Talk about your post-college teaching years? Answer: LR taught and coached for three years in Midland (1947-1950), and he noted that many of his former students and players have kept in contact with him.  He applied and interviewed for a job at his alma mater, A.J. Moore High School, in January of 1950 after the football coach – Mr. Cobb, who had been an assistant when LR was in high school – died. He interviewed with the superintendent and assured him he could teach social studies, political science, and civics, because, as LR told him: “I know more about the senate and the constitution than [Texas senator] John Connally.” He impressed the superintendent, who informed the principal of A.J. Moore about his new football coach and teacher.

00:33:33	Question: You had success coaching football at A.J. Moore High School? Answer: LR began at Moore High School in January of 1950, and in 1951 his team won the district championship. He recalled that the team had some good players, and they only needed motivation. He was only a few years older than his players, and he still sees many of them at Moore High School reunions.  He joked that his players told him they thought he was “crazy,” and they were sure not to “mess with him.”  He remembered that his players felt the team was moving in the right direction and that winning further helped to motivate them.

00:35:42 	Question: Talk about your coaching techniques and strategies? Answer: LR credited much of his early success to good assistant coaching hires, including his quarterback coach, Vernon Hicks, who had been the quarterback of the Wiley championship team in 1945. He talked about meeting with his assistant coaches after school, because they did not have time to get together during the school day. He recalled the school’s emphasis on academics, which was enforced by the principal.
	
00:38:49 	Question: You taught at A.J. Moore High School for how long? Answer: LR taught for 16 years (1950-1966) at Moore High.  He moved to Madison in March of 1966 and lived in Camp Randall Stadium with two other new assistant coaches to help with recruiting.  His family joined him in Madison in June of 1966.

00:40:04	Question: Your son [Lewis H. “Lew” Ritcherson, Jr.] was the quarterback of your last three teams at A.J. Moore High School. What was it like coaching your son? Answer: LR explained that it had not been his decision to start his son at quarterback as a sophomore.  The captains and the assistant coaches came to him and encouraged him to start his son at quarterback.  He described how his son would routinely watch game films with him and how he learned all of the plays and all of the position plays.  The players felt more comfortable with “Ritchie,” as they called his son, at quarterback, and he gained valuable experience that season.  During his son’s junior year, the team won the state championship.

00:43:37	Question: Your son was heavily recruited out when he was in high school? Answer:  LR remembered wanting his son to go to UCLA and play for coach Tommy Prothro. “Ritchie” visited UCLA, and LR really wanted him to pick UCLA until the “Wisconsin thing came up.”  He recalled that his mother wanted him to come with the family to Madison, and she was the one who signed him to come to UW.

00:45:40	Question: What was it like living in Waco during the 1950s and 1960s? Answer: LR remembered that there was plenty of Jim Crow and that it affected his team most by forcing them to play during the week.  The white high schools played games during the weekend, and the black high schools were forced to play on Wednesday or Thursdays.  LR recalled that his team would sometimes travel several hundred miles to Dallas or Corpus Christi in the middle of the week.  After retuning late at night the players and coaches would often sleep in the gym for a few hours instead of going home.  He observed that “those were the unfortunate days.”

00:48:29	No question: LR also talked about the bitter rivalries that existed among the schools in the district. The fans of the Dallas schools, in particular, LR recalled, did not like being beaten, especially by out-of-town schools.  He recalled one incident in which fans from one of the Dallas high schools threw rocks and bricks at the bus after a game. After that game, the players had to eat box lunches on the bus after games.

00:51:18	Question: Any other games from your high school coaching career stand out? Answer: LR talked about the state championship team in 1952 that had to win three games in eight days to break a three-way tie in the district between A.J. Moore High School and two schools from Dallas. He read from a new article detailing the team’s accomplishment, culminating in a 14-0 win in the state championship game.

00:54:18	No question: LR talked about how the principals of the district schools met and decided to have a three-way playoff instead of choosing one team to represent the district.  A.J. Moore High School beat the weaker of the two Dallas teams in Dallas and beat the stronger team in Waco.

00:57:41 	No question: LR believed that his team’s good conditioning helped them win the three games in eight days. In fact, he recalled, his players preferred games to practices, because the games were easier than the practices.

00:58:37	End of First Interview Session. 

Second Interview Session (May 2, 2012): Digital File

00:00:15	Start of Interview/Interviewers’ Introduction 

00:00:44	Question: Talk about visit by football player Jim Brown after 1964 state championship team? Answer: LR recalled that Jim Brown was a spokesperson for Pepsi Cola, and the local Chamber of Commerces – the black Chamber of Commerce and the white Chamber of Commerce – worked together and worked contacts at Pepsi to bring Brown to the team banquet.  LR talked about receiving a new 1965 Ford Fairlane car at the banquet and about playing golf with Jim Brown before the banquet.  LR recalled Jim Brown’s speech in which he told the players that “football wasn’t everything” and that there “was another life ahead of them.” Brown told the banquet that he intended to retire early from football, which he did a few years later.

00:05:01	Question: Talk about how you got in contact with the University of Wisconsin Athletic Department about a position on the football staff? Answer: LR said that UW Assistant Football Coach Deral Teteak was in Houston recruiting, and the Coach of a rival high school encouraged him to consider recruiting players from A.J. Moore High School.  LR recalled that not many schools recruited players from Waco in those days, except for UCLA and Arizona State. He also remembered that Baylor University asked about several players, but he felt that Baylor was only “pretending” to recruit from his team.

00:07:00	Question: How did UW become interested in you as a coaching candidate? Answer: LR explained that Coach Teteak watched film with him and recognized some of the plays.  When Coach Teteak returned to Wisconsin he recommended that UW recruit split end James Jones, and quarterback Lewis Ritcherson, Jr., who had been named a high school All-American by Parade Magazine.  Soon after, UW Athletic Director Ivy Williamson and Head Football Coach Milt Bruhn both called LR and asked if he would be interested in coming to coach at UW.  LR remembered that he wanted to think it over, and he discussed it with his wife and his college football coach, Fred “Pops” Long. Coach Long told him: “You mean you got an offer from the Big Ten, and you’re thinking about it? There is nothing to think about; you go!” LR did decide to accept the offer

00:10:17	No question: After his hiring became public, a group from Chicago contacted LR and warned him that Coach Milt Bruhn was on shaky ground and that UW might shake up its coaching staff soon and told him to think about getting some security.  LR talked about watching the Rose Bowl on New Year’s Day and imagining coaching on the sidelines while his son was the quarterback.  He did not want to be in the situation of having to leave Wisconsin after one year, so LR called UW President Fred Harvey Harrington and explained the situation.  In response, Harrington sent a telegram guaranteeing five years of employment with UW, which sealed the deal for LR.  He recalled that when the other assistant coaches found out about it they weren’t very happy, but LR was pleased that he had had the foresight to seek such security.

00:14:03	Question: How did your son Lew Ritcherson, Jr., end up at the University of Wisconsin? Answer: LR recalled that the rumor at the time was that it had been a package deal, but noted that when he signed his contract there was no guarantee that his son would also come.  LR said that that his son’s decision to come to UW did not become official until his son and his wife got together and decided.  LR thought that if that had been UW’s intention, it ended up being a positive thing.  LR observed that there was only one other African-American coach in the Big Ten at the time - Frank Gilliam at Iowa.

00:15:48	Question: Can you talk about the trip from Waco to Madison? Answer: LR said that they drove two cars up and had a moving van.  They were accompanied on the trip by his brother, his nephew, his mother-in-law,and his mother, who was living in California, met them in Madison.  He recalled driving up through Oklahoma and St. Louis and staying with friends along the way, because hotels and restaurants were not “receptive” to people of color at the time.

00:17:51 	Question: You moved up here before your family and lived in Camp Randall, can you talk about your introduction to UW? Answer: LR recalled that it was lonesome being without his family. He stayed with another coach, Roger French, who had also left his family.  LR talked about being lent a car by a local automobile salesman. The car made it easy to get around, and he often lent the car to the other assistant coaches.
 
00:19:45	No question: LR talked about friends who lived near Camp Randall – Walter Sapp, who was working on his Ph.D. in genetics, and his wife, Ernestine Sapp.  They often had LR over for dinner – spaghetti and meatballs – which he enjoyed.  The Sapps eventually moved to Alabama when Walter Sapp got a job teaching at Tuskegee Institute. Ernestine Sapp became an attorney.

00:21:23	Question: Did you know other people in Madison? Answer: LR talked about Marshall Colston, who was the Director of the Madison chapter of the NAACP.  Colston had been on the welcoming committee and had called LR when he was still in Texas.  Colston and his wife also often had LR over for dinner, and LR supported the local NAACP by attending meetings.

00:23:40	Question: What was the transition from Waco to Madison like? Answer: LR talked about the snow and the cold as the biggest changes, and he talked about his introduction to coaching football in the cold weather.

00:25:48	Question: What was the transition from coaching high school to college football like? Answer: LR believed that coaching football is coaching football and that fundamentals are fundamentals.  He thought that the toughest part of the transition was that UW changed plays and formations for every game, and he felt that teams shouldn’t completely overhaul their offenses from game to game.

00:29:17	Question: What was it like working in the Athletic Department? Answer: LR enjoyed working with Milt Bruhn, who was very welcoming. He recalled that Coach Bruhn introduced him to other Big Ten coaches like Woody Hayes. LR explained that his first year as an assistant coach was what he had expected working in the Big Ten to be like.

00:30:47	Question: You always tried to have your teams to be very well conditioned, was that something you had control over as an assistant coach? Answer: LR explained that the head coach was in charge of conditioning and that assistant coaches had little say except in staff meetings.  He felt that UW lost not because of conditioning, but because they were, perhaps, not as well prepared as some other teams.

00:31:57	Question: After your first year in Madison, Milt Bruhn was let go and John Coatta was hired as the Head Football Coach. What was it like working for him?  Answer: LR did not mind working for Coach Coatta, but it was sometimes tough working with some of the assistant coaches, who had played with Coach Coatta on the “hard rocks defense” of UW’s early 1950s football teams.  Some of the assistant coaches were buddies with Coach Coatta, and LR felt that some of the assistant coaches did not have the “necessary disciplined relationship that assistant coaches should have with head coaches.”  He recalled that things would sometimes be changed after staff meetings due to one or two assistant coaches objecting.

00:34:50	Question: Any significant coaching memories? Answer: LR talked about one practice in which an assistant coach yelled excessively at a receiver who had, perhaps, not given the necessary effort.  He remembered the coach using explicit language and encouraging other coaches to “get on him.”  LR felt that this was not appropriate for coaches to do in front of other players and felt that coaches should not try to embarrass other coaches by yelling at the players they were responsible for coaching.

00:37:04	Question: Do you have memories of student unrest in 1960s Madison? Answer: LR talked about an incident in which black football players and white football players “crossed paths” during a campus protest, and some of the friends of the football players got into a fight.  He recalled that campus turmoil carried over to the football team with some of the football players not liking the ways in which they were treated.  He talked about white football players and black football players meeting with the Athletic Board over these issues. He observed that UW did not “recruit dummies,” so he felt the players were smart enough to know something was going on that was not quite right.  LR also recalled that the turmoil carried over into coaches meetings, and he said that “those were terrible times.”

00:40:06	Question: Do you think the grievances and the concerns of the black players were appropriate? Answer: Absolutely. 

00:40:51	Question: Before the last home game of the 1968 season against Minnesota, the black players threatened to boycott the game and not play? Answer: LR said that the African-American players did threaten not to play. In particular, they felt they were being completely ignored.  LR recalled that the coaches kept saying that there were no problems, but he believed that there were problems, and the other coaches did not see them.  He remembered that the Athletic Department brought in a psychiatrist [Dr. Maxie Maultsby] to talk to the team and to the coaches, and he observed that the coaches were not properly motivating the black players to play.  The coaching staff disagreed and felt that the more they criticized and chewed out the players, the better they would perform.  LR believed that, perhaps, they should have considered changing methods since they were not getting very good results.

00:43:12	Question: At the end of the 1968 season, black players boycotted the team banquet? Answer: LR remembered that some of the African-American players boycotted the banquet but that seven or eight did attend the banquet.  He felt that they were still trying to get attention for their grievances.  LR again talked about Dr. Maultsby who worked with the team, and he remembered that some of the coaches, including the Head Coach, were in favor of working with him.  He also recalled that two of the assistant coaches never attended any of the meetings with the psychologist who was trying to help them recognize what the staff was doing wrong.  One of the psychologist’s suggestions was for the coaches not to isolate themselves from the players and to show them that they had their best interests at heart.

00:44:57	Question: Some of this turmoil spilled over to the coaching staff? Answer: LR explained that staff meetings were difficult, especially as the only minority person in the room. He was sometimes hesitant to say things for fear they would be taken in the wrong way. He found it difficult not to have any peers to bounce ideas off of.  LR recalled being embarrassed when he was accused of instigating the turmoil.  He felt this was unfair, since he tried very hard to stop the boycotts.  LR recalled a late-night meeting in the dormitory with the African-American players before the Minnesota game in which he tried to convince the players not to boycott. He recalled another instance in which he had a late-night meeting with some of the black players who were considering holding their own practice by the Natatorium away from Camp Randall and the rest of the team.  He wanted to prevent that from happening, because he felt it would attract the wrong kind of publicity, when the African-American athletes were simply trying to publicize their grievances.

00:48:50	Question: Do you remember the types of things you said to the players in these late-night meetings? Answer: LR recalled making arguments like: “You can’t do this; you’re not punishing the coaches; you’re punishing the University of Wisconsin where you got your scholarship.  You’re here to get an education first. You’re not here to make the pros. If you make the pros, fine; but you can’t depend on that. You’re here to get an education at one of the greatest universities; that’s why you’re here.  You can’t jeopardize your scholarship, because a group is not treating you fairly. That’s life sometimes.”  LR said that he knew the atmosphere on the team wasn’t right, but he also knew that the players could not afford to take such steps, because it was not in their best interest or the best interests of the team.

00:50:56	Question: Did the Athletic Department start to address some of the problems? Answer: LR thought that the Athletic Board started to try to solve the problems, but he felt the coaching staff did not.  He was pleased to see the Athletic Board recognizing that there were problems and concerns, which is what led to Dr. Maultsby involvement.

00:52:00	Question: You helped organize the first meeting of black coaches at predominantly white institutions at the 1970 American Football Coaches Association Convention? Answer: LR helped organize this meeting, because he was interested to see if other coaches were having the same problems that he had at UW and to learn what they were doing to compensate. He talked about the involvement of Bob Greene, an AP writer from Milwaukee, and talked about the coaches’ desire to exchange information.  LR felt that few of the other coaches had difficulties with the coaching staff like he experienced at UW after Milt Bruhn left.  He remembered his last few years of coaching in Madison as “hell.”

00:54:14	No question: LR talked about a trip to Arizona State that was difficult for him. The coaching staff devised a plan to start Lew Ritcherson, his son, at quarterback for the first few minutes as a decoy and then to pull him in favor of another quarterback they felt played better off of the bench.  LR disagreed with the strategy and found it tough to go on that trip both as a coach and a father.

00:59:23	Question: Do you recall any good ideas that came out of black coaches meeting in 1970? Answer:  LR recalled that the University of Iowa’s Frank Gilliam told him, “you can’t fight city hall,” by which he meant the rest of the coaching staff.  LR talked about the difficulty of his coaching experience in Madison. He hadn’t expected it to be “peaches and cake,” but he also hadn’t expected it to be so bad. He observed that “somebody had to do it” and said that “some of us had to do it to make it better for the rest of us.”  He endured the tough times and is glad to see multiple black coaches at schools around the country today.

01:04:34	Question: Anything else you would like to say about time as a coach at UW? Answer: LR felt that the problems were “no fault of the University,” and he admired UW for living up to its initial five-year contract they had provided him.  Coaching at UW, however, turned out nothing like he had had hoped after his first year with Milt Bruhn.  He had not envisioned the “humiliation and non-comradeship” that he endured as a football coach. He recalled the experiences as “miserable, demeaning, and unprofessional.”  This was difficult for LR to say, but it was the truth.  LR did not regret doing it, however, because of the results he sees today.

01:07:10	Question: You had good relationships with some of the players? Answer: LR thought that some of the best players were the seniors like Bill Fritz and John Tietz, who helped him out, and he still talks to some of his former players today.

01:09:27	Question: It sounds like a lot of your former players keep in touch? Answer: LR talked about the Moore High reunions he attends, where he is embraced by former players the entire time.  He recalled those as the “good old days; when coaching was fun.”  He talked about one of his former assistant coaches, who taught at an integrated high school after the schools in Waco de-segregated in the mid-1960s. His former assistant coach also found this coaching experience to be “hell,” especially in comparison to the days at Moore High School.

01:10:45	End of Second Interview Session. 

Third Interview Session (May 11, 2012): Digital File

00:00:02	Start of Interview/Interviewers’ Introduction 

00:00:21	Question: Anything else you would like to say about your coaching career at the University of Wisconsin? Answer: LR talked about Lucius Blair, an African-American linebacker from Texas, whom Deral Teteak had originally recruited under Milt Bruhn.  At the beginning of his sophomore year, Blair was late returning to Madison, because he missed his connecting flight to Madison from Chicago.  Blair hitchhiked from Chicago to get to Madison and slept in the Field House to be there for a scheduled team meeting.  The new coaching staff under John Coatta voted 4-1 to kick Blair off of the team for missing team meetings, and LR recalled that Blair’s dismissal was a “bitter pill” for him to swallow. Former coach Milt Bruhn helped Blair get into the University of Tulsa, but LR thought they should have found some other form of punishment for Blair rather than kicking him off the team.

00:05:26	No question: LR talked about the way in which he and his wife opened up their house to out-of-state players, who could not afford to return to their homes for holidays and school breaks.  He reminisced about hosting Thanksgiving dinners for many of his players, and discussed some of the recreational activities he provided for the players.  He felt that it was part of his responsibility to help look out for the players – especially the ones who came from far-away.

0:07:27	No question: LR recalled one “disappointing experience” when his wife fell on the ice and broke her ankle.  He got word during a football staff meeting, and he left to be with his wife, even though some of the assistant coaches thought he should stay.  A few days later, LR received an anonymous phone call alleging that his wife had been intentionally pushed. He recalled being upset beyond description about it.

00:10:25 	Question: Any thoughts or memories about Athletic Director Ivy Williamson? Answer: LR remembered that Williamson always spoke his mind, and he had fond memories of both Williamson and Milt Bruhn, who worked as assistant athletic director after his years coaching football.  Both Williamson and Bruhn often invited LR and his wife over to their house.  He also told an anecdote about Williamson buying him a new winter coat soon after he arrived in Madison. LR also recalled that after safety Mel Walker suffered a severe leg injury during a 1967 game in Minnesota, Williamson and Bruhn paid for LR to return to Minnesota to be by Walker’s side after Walker developed gangrene and had to have surgery to amputate his leg below the knee.  LR also remembered that Bruhn always took him along to informal coaches gathering when the Badgers played on the road, but, that after Bruhn was replaced, he no longer attended those gatherings.

00:14:55 	Question: Any thoughts or memories about Athletic Director Elroy “Crazylegs” Hirsch? Answer: LR thought that Hirsch was a “nice handshaking guy with a nice smile.”  LR told a story about Milt Bruhn’s firing as Assistant Athletic Director.  Bruhn found out he was being let go when a secretary handed him a letter from Hirsch, who was on vacation. LR thought this was a “cheap shot” and that Bruhn deserved better after his years of service.  When Hirsch hired Jim Jardine from UCLA as the head football coach, he told Jardine that he did not need to keep LR on the football staff, but, by that time, LR observed that he “had had enough” with coaching football at UW.  

00:16:25	No question: LR then talked about the fact that the next several African-American coaches at UW did not stay at the school very long.  LR recalled that Bob Lee (1974-1976) left after two years and, when he left, he told LR that he could not take it anymore.  Jim Martin (1970-1972) was a high school coach in Racine before being hired at the UW. He also only stayed for two years and is now an attorney.  LR mused that some things changed, but “they didn’t really change for people of color” right away. Coach Dave McClain brought an African-American coach [Cliff Knox] with him when was hired, but, LR recalled that, when things got bad, the black coach was among the first fired.  LR felt that Knox did some things that LR had refused to do like really riding the African-American players.

00:18:26	Question: Talk about your move to Administration? Answer: After leaving the Athletic Department, LR first worked at UW-Extension.  Bascom Hill was paying his salary, but a friend arranged a job for him as the Affirmative Action officer at UW-Extension.  LR recalled that he was glad to get the job, because he had been getting frustrated staying at home. He also remembered that his home was a “meeting place” for the fired assistant coaches. In response to a question, he explained that his job was to make sure that UW-Extension was complying with federal affirmative action guidelines.  LR thought that he fit right in with his educational background in sociology and economics.

00:20:52	No question: LR recalled that eventually the Madison campus realized they needed an affirmative action officer, too, so, since they were already paying his salary, they brought him over to Bascom Hill.  He talked about his gratitude to Chancellor Ed Young for honoring his agreement with President Harrington.  He recalled that Chancellor Young once told him that he had lived up the agreement, because “it was the right thing to do.”  LR thought that he became good at “coaxing” and educating departments at UW about the benefits of having an integrated staff. LR was involved with the “five year” programs run by Ruth Doyle that were intended to increase diversity on the Madison campus. His job was to encourage departments to hire minorities.  He recalled that it was not too difficult, but that it was not always “readily accepted, either.”  

0:24:19	Question: Any specific memories of the “coaxing” you did to these departments? Answer: LR’s title was Assistant to the Chancellor, because, he thought, that designation carried more weight with department heads, but, he remembered, it did not seem to matter to some of them.  He recalled that one of his most difficult clients was UW Hospital, who claimed to be unable to find “qualified” minorities.  LR discussed a program he helped institute with the Nursing School that recruited nurses from North Carolina A&T and Tuskegee Institute.  He worked with Cyrena Pondrum, the director of the Affirmative Action Office. He remembered that he sometimes had to convince Deans, Departments Heads, and others with hiring authority about the serious financial ramifications of not complying with federal affirmative action regulations.

00:30:30	Question: Any other specific programs you thought were successful? Answer: LR remembered that, over a two-year period, the Affirmative Action office systematically visited every department on campus to sell the program.  He felt that the initiative became more successful after the meetings even though there were still obstacles.  He talked about one Assistant Vice President who was hired away from an historically black college.

00:32:16 	Question: Were there any units on campus who resisted the program?  Answer: LR said that departments “were smarter than that.  They didn’t put up any resistance at all; they just wouldn’t hire anybody.”

00:32:47 	Question: Do you think your skills in coaching translated to your job in administration? Answer: LR felt that he knew how to get along with people, but he thought his master’s degree in guidance and counseling helped him to be successful.

00:33:47 	Question: When did you move to Bascom from Extension? Answer: LR thought he started in Bascom around 1975.

00:34:22	Question: The Afro-American Studies Program was founded at UW-Madison in the early 1970s. Did you have any role in that? Answer: LR talked about working with the chairman in the hiring of qualified staff.  He also remembered reminding the Afro-American studies program that the Affirmative Action Office was emphasizing the importance of integrated  staff all around campus, so he urged the department to not only hire African-Americans.

00:36:03	Question: Any memories of the Bombing of Sterling Hall?  Answer: LR did not have any specific memories of the bombing.

00:37:25	Question: Any other thoughts about your time as an Administrator at UW? Answer: LR talked about the difficult of breaking the “old buddy system” in many departments.  He explained that many professors would tell the Affirmative Action office that they did not know any African-Americans, because they did not run in those circles.  He thought “the old buddy system” was the toughest problem the Affirmative Action office faced.

00:38:50	Question: When did you retire? Answer: LR retired about 1990 after he took a leave of absence when his mother became sick and then passed away.  

00:40:31	Question: Any activities after retiring? Answer: LR played a lot of golf after leaving UW.

00:41:45	Question: You have been inducted into the Texas Sports Hall of Champions and the Waco Independent School District Athletics Hall of Fame, any thoughts on this recognition? Answer: LR thought that going back to Texas for those awards were some of the most pleasant times of his retirement.  He felt gratified to be remembered after all those years, and he enjoyed going back to reunions and seeing former players and reliving pleasant memories.

00:44:22	 Question: Any thoughts on living in Madison? Answer: LR thought he had met some of the nicest people in Madison.  He had no “qualms or quarrels with Madison” except for high taxes.

00:45:15	Question: You recently celebrated your 60th wedding anniversary, any advice for maintaining a long marriage?  Answer: LR thought the most important rule was: “do everything your wife tells you to do and don’t forget it.”

00:46:55	Question: Anything else you would like to get on the record?  Answer: LR was grateful for getting the opportunity to put his experiences on the record. He was also grateful for President Harrington and Chancellor Young for honoring their commitment and for UW-Extension for giving him a job.  He emphasized that not all of the other assistant coaches were as “painful to endure,” and, in particular, he praised freshman football coach LaVerne Van Dyke, whom he felt was like a father figure for the freshman players.

00:48:50	Question: Any thought on sports today? Answer: LR did not like the idea of paying players to hurt one another, because he thought players got hurt often enough, anyway. [The 2012 New Orleans Saints Bounty Scandal had recently broken]. 

00:50:50	End of Third Interview Session

End of Oral History #1227

END