UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #551
SUNSTAD, NORM

SUNSTAD, Norm (1943- )
Director of University Housing
At UW: 1983-1998

Interviewed: 2000	
Interviewer: Barry Teicher
Length: 4 hours, 28 minutes

Childhood and education; Graduate studies and employment at the University of Nebraska; Early interest in the field of housing; Employment at the University of Michigan; Arrival at UW; Newell Smith; Renovation of residence halls;  Living/learning communities; Implementation of computer technology; Changes in housing; Closing remarks.

First Interview Session (October 12, 2000): Tapes 1-2

00:00:04	NS was born and grew up in Minnesota.  He attended and graduated from Fergus Falls Junior College in Minnesota.  NS earned a bachelor’s degree in Psychology from Moorhead State College and continued his education at the University of Nebraska, where he received a master's degree in educational psychology.  

00:01:17	While at Moorhead State, NS served as a resident advisor in the residence halls. 

00:04:58	A faculty mentor suggested to NS that he consider attending graduate school and contacted the University of Nebraska on his behalf.  He continued to work in housing while at Nebraska and served as a graduate assistant.  While completing his master’s degree, NS was hired to run one of the residential houses on campus.  

00:06:35	It became clear to NS that he enjoyed the administrative aspects of working in housing rather than counseling students. 

00:09:20	NS was offered a job at the University of Michigan and began his position as housing coordinator of the residential college in 1969.  NS eventually overcame administrative conflicts in running the residential college.  

00:09:30	The residential college was a haven for radicals on campus.  It was a good, though trying, experience for NS.  

00:11:46	The University of Michigan and UW had, NS explains, different approaches when faced with the implementation of new ideas.

00:28:14	Robben Fleming served as president of University of Michigan, but NS did not have much contact with him.  

00:29:58	NS met his wife while working in housing at the University of Michigan.

00:30:57	End of side.  

00:30:58	NS was promoted to the position of area coordinator at the University of Michigan.  He learned about all aspects of housing while serving in this capacity. 

00:36:56	In order to be a housing director, NS realized he must leave University of Michigan.  He decided to apply for an opening at UW.  

00:40:32	NS discusses why he thought he was hired as director instead of the other candidates.  He and his wife moved to Madison in 1983.

00:46:58	NS describes his initial encounters with UW.  He relates a story about Irving Shain which illustrates the differences between the University of Michigan and UW.  NS describes the president of the University of Michigan, Harold Shapiro.  

00:51:17	NS discusses Newell Smith, his predecessor as housing director.  He describes his own emerging management style and the selection of an advisory group at UW:  Paul Evans, Robert Fessenden, Alice Gustafson and Kay Reuter-Krohn.  

00:55:56	The tradition of housing at UW is a strong one.  NS respects the work ethic and values of the people in the housing division and comments on the high standards at UW.  

01:01:38	End of side.  End of tape.

01:01:44	NS again discusses Newell Smith.

01:03:15	NS comments on the integration of women into the workforce at UW during his tenure.   
01:05:52	He notes that UW is a wonderful place to work, largely due to the high caliber of its employees.  

01:06:48	NS explains that he always tried to hire the best people, regardless of sex or race.  He discusses the lack of cultural diversity in Wisconsin.  

01:13:58	As housing director, NS oversaw the shift in technology from typewriters to computers.  He discusses the implementation of computers in housing administration.  

01:17:05	Computer centers were established for student use in the residence halls, beginning with fifty free computers from Apple.  Rooms in the residence halls were wired for voice, data, and video lines.

01:25:40	NS states that the purpose of the Division of Housing is to do what the students, as customers, desire.  His predecessors at UW operated in this same way, which NS respects.  
01:27:23	Bob Fessenden and NS initiated the renovation of Eagle Heights.  NS explains some problems with funding the project.

01:32:42	End of side.

01:32:45	NS continues his discussion of the Eagle Heights renovation.  Tenants were not pleased with the dramatic increase in rent.

01:33:26	The family housing division began to offer some community services such as child care and counseling.  NS discusses this development and the shift in housing to offer more than basic services to students.  

01:37:08	NS reflects on the family atmosphere among housing employees.  

01:40:20	End of side.  End of tape.  End of interview session. 

Second Interview Session (October 13, 2000): Tapes 3-4

00:00:15	NS discusses the further development of child care on campus.  Chancellor Donna Shalala assigned the operation of campus child care centers to the housing division.  Child care became a standard service managed by housing.  

00:01:48	During this period, NS became aware of the changing nature of family situations.  Many of his employees struggled with the balance of work and family life.  NS tried to accommodate a variety of needs among his staff.  

00:07:10	NS discusses employee relations and the difficulty in making consistent decisions while leaving room for flexibility in individual cases.  

00:16:03	Equal access to married student housing and services for domestic partners became an issue which NS addressed as housing director.  

00:25:18	In the mid-1980s, the possibility of placing condom vending machines in the residence halls was raised with little reaction from the public.  

27:50	NS held a forum to discuss the prospect of allowing Christmas trees in the residence halls.

00:30:46	End of side.  

00:30:47	The forum regarding Christmas trees resulted in a helpful exchange of ideas, according to NS.

00:32:04	Sensitivity to ethnic and social differences was one subject emphasized by the residence life and student affairs staff.  

00:38:00	NS discusses the relationship between the housing division and the office of the dean.

00:47:27	The Center for Cultural Enrichment and the Multicultural Resident Consultant Program in the residence halls were designed to help minority students feel comfortable in housing and on campus.  NS explains hardships minority students may encounter at UW.  

00:47:18	Students with disabilities required certain structural changes to housing facilities for the sake of accessibility.  NS was sympathetic to the needs of special students and believes that UW did a good job in accommodating all students.  

00:52:27	NS addresses alcohol and drug use among residents.  He occasionally evicted students from the residence halls for alcohol-related offenses.  It is difficult to educate about alcohol and drug use.  NS did not view drug use as a big problem among students in the residence halls.

00:58:09	During his time in housing at UW, NS dealt with suicides and attempted suicides in the residence halls. 

01:01:16	End of side.  End of tape.

01:01:19	According to NS, UW had a good system in place to assist despondent and despairing students. 

01:02:20	NS describes the idea of a campus living/learning community.  Most housing professionals regarded such an environment as a positive experience for students. 

01:06:19	According to NS, academic faculty are not generally enthusiastic about participation in a residential college.  When faculty are involved and committed to devoting time and energy, a living/learning community can be a successful venture.  Kay Reuter-Krohn and NS worked to offer support to faculty who became involved in such an undertaking.  

01:10:03	A few of the living/learning communities at UW, including the Bradley Learning Experience, Chadbourne Residential College, Women in Science and Global Village, are discussed by NS.  He explains the difficulty in measuring success in such programs.  

01:17:01	NS reflects on the goals of the housing division and how it is able to best serve students. 

01:19:26	Chadbourne Residential College became a reality through the efforts of Bill Cronon and the housing division.  NS believes that involvement in a smaller community, such as a residential college, makes students feel more connected at a large university.  

01:28:03	NS discusses his purpose as housing director, which was to serve students, not to promote his own agenda. 

01:28:56	The future of college housing, NS predicts, will be the domain of private entrepreneurs. 

01:31:47	End of side.  End of tape.  End of interview session.

Third Interview Session (October 13, 2000): Tapes 5-6

00:00:17	NS looks at the marketing aspect of housing at UW.  Marketing material was developed by a full-time staff person whom NS hired.  An effort was made to improve the quality of food service supplied at on-campus events.  

00:05:10	Summer conferences on campus were continued and further developed by NS. 

00:10:32	Today house fellows in the residence halls are mostly undergraduate students, who do a better job than graduate students, explains NS.

00:12:47	Several residence halls were renovated during NS’s tenure as director.  This was done in order to meet the changing needs of students.  Bob Fessenden and Paul Evans organized the remodeling of dining halls on campus.

00:16:24	Renovation and improvement of the residence halls is phased to last a number of years.  NS discusses problems with state construction inspectors. 

00:18:38	NS describes the innovative food plan which was implemented under Chancellor Irving Shain and discusses the changes made during his own tenure.  

00:22:18	It is important that administration in student housing have an understanding of the business aspects of the operation.  The difficulty lies in balancing student needs and fiscal responsibility.  

00:25:21	NS discusses the origins of the electronic card [“WisCard”], which is now in use across campus for keeping track of purchases. 

00:27:29	Bob Fessenden developed an on-campus pizza delivery system and convenience stores to comply with student expectations.

00:29:03	Changes in student government in the residence halls that occurred while NS was housing director are discussed.

00:30:46	End of side.
		
00:30:53	NS continues to discuss changes in student government.  An elaborate representative system emerged, which resulted in the deterioration in relations between housing administration and students. 

00:34:02	NS comments on chancellors Irving Shain, Donna Shalala and David Ward.  NS believes that John Torphy is a good administrator and is supportive of the needs of housing.  

00:41:03	A legislative audit was conducted in housing, which NS explains.  It was a purely political process, and not at all beneficial.  Auditing by the state is done poorly and too frequently.

00:43:19	NS describes his relationship with the UW regents.  He is especially impressed with Regent Lee Dreyfus.

00:50:29	NS served on numerous committees during his time at UW.  He worked to advocate using computers in residence halls for instructional purposes.  Tad Pinkerton assisted with the project which eventually was taken over by DoIT.  

00:51:54	The housing division originates an idea, launches it on a small scale and then, if successful, transfers it to an appropriate department on campus.  The goal for a successful organization is to have people who are motivated to work well and who care about what they are doing.  This ideal is a reality in housing, according to NS.  

00:57:26	NS and his wife decided to leave Madison and he took a job at a small college in Colorado.  He explains that it was time to leave housing and pursue some of his hobbies and other interests.  It is not beneficial to stay in one position too long; people should step aside for the sake of progress.  

01:01:41	End of side.  End of tape.  

01:01:42	NS continues to explain that it was his time to leave housing and UW.

01:04:29	NS reflects on some problems and struggles during his time at UW.  He had difficulty finding employees to provide the growing number of services expected by students. 

01:09:03	Looking back, NS thinks he should have been more critical of his staff.  He could have been more rigid as a director and less concerned with maintaining friendships with his staff.  

01:10:19	He discusses major changes in the student population during his tenure at UW.  Students, he notes, have become more materialistic and affluent and they expect a greater number of services.

01:13:53	NS comments on the involvement of attorneys who are hired by the parents of students in trouble in housing. 

01:16:37	NS admits that he would have been more accommodating regarding special circumstances. 

01:17:16	End of side.  End of tape.
END