UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #526
MONKMEYER, PETER L.

MONKMEYER, Peter L. (1930- )
Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering
At UW: 1961-1993

Interviewed: 1998	
Series: College of Engineering
Interviewer: Paul Morledge
Length: 5 hours, 46 minutes

Background; Undergraduate and graduate education at Cornell University; Fulbright fellowship; Hiring by UW; Research; Students and student recruitment; Consulting work; Crow Committee; Other committee work; Faculty governance; Department chairmanship; Deans Kurt Wendt, Robert Marshall and John Bollinger; Retirement.

First Interview Session (May 6, 1998): Tapes 1-2

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:25	PM was born in Berlin, Germany in 1930. Both his parents had Ph.D.s. His father was a public high school teacher and his mother a freelance writer.

00:01:40	PM remembers standing on his balcony at age 6 and seeing a parade with Adolf Hitler riding by in a car. He did not, of course, understand the implications of this at the time.

00:02:13	In 1937, PM was sent to live with his paternal grandparents in Hanover, Germany while his parents prepared to leave the country—because his mother’s side of the family was Jewish even though his mother was a baptized Christian.

00:02:44	PM’s maternal grandfather convinced PM’s parents to leave Germany because of the religious-political turmoil there at the time. 

00:04:42	PM’s mother took him from Hanover and they traveled to Paris, France to meet up with PM’s father.

00:05:49	PM recalls taking the S.S. Manhattan with his parents via Southampton, England to New York City where they took up residence on West 91st Street. PM’s father taught French at the Columbia Grammar School where PM attended classes.

00:06:38	PM’s family later moved to uptown Manhattan on 200th Street. He attended NYC Public School #52 and Junior High School #52.

00:07:56	In 1944 PM took an entrance examination for Brooklyn Technical High School.  He ended up passing although it was a harrowing experience. He spent the next four years in the college preparatory component of Brooklyn Tech.

00:10:01	Brooklyn Tech was the all-male engineering preparatory school for NYC, whereas the Bronx High School of Science prepared future scientists.

00:13:29	PM had excellent teachers at Brooklyn Tech.

00:15:38	He describes how having two parents with Ph.D.s created an intense educational climate within the Monkmeyer home.

00:17:02	As a teenager, PM knew he wanted to pursue some career in the physical sciences.

00:17:54	PM applied to Cornell with the hope of becoming an agricultural engineering student. He did not really expect to be accepted, and he knew that even if he was his parents would have difficulty paying the tuition.

00:19:54	PM had worked on farms around NYC during his summers in high school, so he had an interest in agricultural engineering.

00:23:13	PM’s favorite courses at Cornell were in fluid mechanics and soil and water management.

00:24:48	Again, PM was quite impressed with his teachers at Cornell. Professor O. C. French was chairman of the Agricultural Engineering Department and made quite an impression on PM.

00:26:40	PM began spending his time with graduate students, many of whom were returning G.I.s from WWII. These older students greatly influenced PM.

00:27:51	PM graduated from Cornell in 1952, in the midst of the Korean War. He decided to enlist in the US Army in July of 1952 and ended up serving in the Army Corps of Engineers. With only ten months of military service remaining, PM received his orders to go overseas.

00:30:42	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:31:28	PM was sent to Germany, where he was assigned to a “machine records division,” that is, computers. 

00:33:49	The machine records division was moved to France during PM’s last few weeks of service. He remained in Germany to guard trains that were carrying computer components to France. 

00:35:32	Upon returning stateside PM decided to visit some faculty in the graduate school at Cornell. He talked to Professor Andre Jorissen, a hydraulics engineer, who convinced him to study for a master’s degree in hydraulics in the Cornell School of Engineering.

00:39:31	PM’s master’s thesis involved the testing of a quadrant-edge orifice. He remembers spending many late hours in the lab trying to finish his master’s thesis, which he did in 1956. He also met his future wife around this time.

00:41:41	PM then applied for a Fulbright Fellowship to study hydraulics at the Karlsruhe Technical Institute in Karlsruhe, Germany. He spent a year at Karlsruhe and enjoyed re-learning German.

00:44:00	PM spent time with Walter Wunsche, an expert fluid-control modeler at Karlsruhe. Wunsche taught him a lot about laboratory instrumentation and modeling.

00:49:38	This occurred during PM’s first year of marriage and he and his wife had a wonderful time in Karlsruhe.

00:50:17	PM decided to attend Cornell again for his Ph.D. in hydraulics. He took additional courses in soil mechanics and aerodynamics, both of which helped him to better understand fluid flow.

00:54:29	PM’s graduate advisor, Andre Jorissen, died when he was working towards his Ph.D. This caused him stress in terms of deciding what academic direction to take.

00:56:44	PM’s second advisor, Professor Bogema, also died. He, too, had given PM little advice on what to pursue for dissertation research. As a result, PM felt lost.

00:58:20	PM pursued thesis research in radar wave characteristics around topographic 	features, which was far from hydraulics. His work, however, did involve waves.

01:00:44	PM became a teaching assistant then an instructor at Cornell, both of which helped him get hired by the UW COE.

01:02:42	End of side. End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:02:44	PM describes his experiences as an instructor at Cornell and how he found teaching thoroughly enjoyable.

01:05:48	In 1960, PM and his wife attended a hydraulics conference at Colorado State in Fort Collins, Colorado. They drove to the conference and this was PM’s first time west of the Mississippi.

01:07:07	PM met and impressed Arno Lenz and James Villamont, two UW civil engineering professors, at this conference and they told him to keep in touch. PM thought this close to an offer.

01:08:10	As one of the most senior graduate students at the time, PM was privy to some hiring decisions at Cornell. Jim Ligget, an assistant professor from UW-Madison, had just been hired by Cornell so PM knew there was going to be an opening at the UW COE.

01:10:32	PM was offered an interview when he called UW to inquire about the opening caused by Ligget’s departure. He was interviewed in May, 1961 and offered a job.

01:14:01	PM was in touch with a few other universities like UC-Davis, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and Kansas before he accepted the UW-Madison position. PM was in quite serious negotiations with UC-Davis, but the school refused to fly him out for an interview.

01:19:01	PM knew nothing about the state of Wisconsin before he came to work here.

01:20:00	PM did not choose to come to the UW COE because of his research interests.  This was not much of a factor in those days, says PM.

01:22:45	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

Second Interview Session (May 19, 1998): Tapes 3-4

Tape 3/Side 1

00:00:01	PM became interested in hydrodynamics as a graduate student at Cornell, mainly from a course taught by Professor Andre Jorissen. Jorissen’s course opened PM’s eyes to the analytical techniques available in aero- and fluid-dynamics.

00:02:40	PM minored in soil mechanics in his master’s program at Cornell.

00:03:09	PM draws the distinction between classical “ideal fluids” and the real-life, true fluids that flow with detectable shearing stresses and viscosity.

00:06:06	Upon his arrival at the UW COE, PM was asked to guide Albert Law, a Ph.D. candidate, in his research on “transient groundwater.” This research was quite mathematical and PM learned a lot about mathematics from Law.

00:09:36	PM then became interested in water-wave dynamics. He took a short course at MIT in the early 1960s to become more familiar with coastal water-wave dynamics. He came back and collaborated on non-linear wave theory research with a professor from the UW’s meteorology department.

00:11:10	PM distinguishes between deep-water waves and shallow-water waves.  PM extended some non-linear wave theory to deep-water waves. He was the first theoretician to do so. PM hopes to expand upon this work in his retirement.

00:12:39	PM talks about another area of research: density stratification in natural water bodies. He has studied Wisconsin freshwater lakes and their reaction to freezing and thawing. One method he uses to study such phenomena is called “selective withdrawal.”

00:15:49	Later in his research career PM studied seepage under offshore structures, an extension and combination of groundwater and water-wave dynamics. This research led to a flurry of technical publications.

00:18:08	The seepage research led to a new area of inquiry for PM: mathematical analysis of flow fields through Schwartz-Kristoffel transformations.

00:19:47	PM received funding for his initial research efforts from the UW COE Research Committee. Over time, PM has received research support from the National Science Foundation, the United States Department Of Energy, the United States Geological Survey, the UW Water Resources Center, the UW Sea Grant Institute, the Wisconsin DNR, the Madison Sewerage Commission, Apple Computer and the city of Madison.

00:23:25	Intramural research funding became less and less available over time. The NSF and other federal agencies used to fund much of PM’s research but recently have become hesitant to. Also, the competition for federal funds is now keener than ever.

00:26:30	PM says that in general it is much harder to get research funding today than it was in the past; researchers have to apply to a greater number of agencies to achieve the same level of funding they had received in the past.

00:28:02	PM discusses his work with UW COE colleague Jim Villamont on creating a “barrage” for the Wisconsin River near Muscoda. PM built some models to simulate the performance of various barrage designs.

00:31:08	End of side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:31:13	PM describes Jim Villamont as an outstanding professor and a great mentor. The Muscoda barrage was never constructed but PM says he learned a great deal from the project.

00:32:17	One of PM’s research projects on the wave dynamics surrounding cylindrical columns ended up in literature that was read and analyzed by engineers at a Norwegian construction company. This company, located in Bergen, Norway, was interested in building floating bridges that employed cylindrical supports.

00:36:20	PM referred this Norwegian company to a Chicago engineering firm that designed computer models which incorporated PM’s calculations of these floating bridges. Some of these bridges were indeed built in Norway and PM traveled there to view them.

00:37:50	PM describes the original research climate when he arrived at the UW as “casual.”  However, as stated, the research climate here has since become much more competitive and the expectations of young researchers, assistant professors, are much higher.

00:41:13	PM was most familiar with teaching fluid mechanics in the UW COE. He also taught hydraulic engineering and open channel hydraulics, two courses he describes as being taught in civil engineering departments nationwide.

00:44:41	PM created the following courses in the UW COE: Hydrodynamics, Groundwater Dynamics, Flow Through Porous Media, Theory of Water Waves, Water Hammer and Flood Routing. He took over teaching a course in Problems in Viscous Flow.

00:48:14	PM thinks the engineering students of the 1960s were not as well prepared as today’s students. However, he thinks students of the past studied harder than students today.

00:50:54	On the whole, says PM, today’s students have the same mix of aptitudes as those in the past.

00:51:36	Not many minority students, PM says, have been drawn to the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering. PM tried recruiting minorities at Brooklyn Tech but was not very successful.

00:54:27	PM has seen many Indian, Chinese, and Southeast Asian students come through the department. In general, though, there has been a slight decrease in numbers of foreign national students.

00:56:14	PM has seen a large increase in the number of female students in the department.  This number rises every year.

00:57:50	PM served as a visiting professor at the Technical University of Norway, Trondheim on three different occasions. He describes these appointments as research oriented during which he studied wave theory and dynamics.

00:59:34	While a visiting professor at German technical universities in Dresden and Hanover, PM taught hydrodynamic courses in English to German students.

01:02:14	End of side. End of tape.

Tape 4/Side 1

01:02:17	PM developed a new course at the Franzius Institute in Hanover, Germany: Partial Differential Equations in Hydrology. He taught this course in German, which proved difficult.

01:04:45	Most of PM’s foreign students at UW COE were educated at the L’Ecole Centrale in France, which is the country’s top engineering school. Most of these French students are incredibly bright and are, on average, much older than their American counterparts.

01:07:14	PM says getting into technical colleges in Europe is more difficult than in the United States.

01:08:12	PM discusses some of his most talented engineering students during his tenure at the UW COE. They include Lyn Gellhar, Stuart Wallish, Thomas Durante, Fred Dias, Bradford Spring, Paul Unnamarc, Albert Law and Willem Murray.

01:11:35	PM took student course evaluations quite seriously. He used evaluations to alter his teaching style and course content. He also thinks such evaluations should be used in faculty promotion decisions.

01:14:33	PM thinks student evaluations should only be “one part of the puzzle” when evaluating the quality of a professor’s teaching. Unfortunately, many students do not take the evaluations seriously and/or give extremely biased critiques.

01:17:14	Many graduate students decide whether or not to enroll in electives based on previous student evaluations, says PM.

01:18:28	PM usually scores better on student evaluations for elective courses. In general, PM says his evaluations are generally higher than those of his colleagues.

01:21:09	PM thinks professors pay undue attention to course criticisms and this can be detrimental to teaching performance, says PM.

01:25:27	PM breaks his consulting work down to two categories: those jobs that deal with some kind of legal dispute; and work that leads to improvement of civil engineering or structural designs.

01:29:18	PM did some legal consulting and expert witnessing for Madison’s South Beltline, which was built over the Monona Causeway.

01:31:03	PM refers to the Norwegian floating bridges as an example of consulting work that lead to practical design changes.

01:32:28	The Martin-Marietta Company approached PM for consultation on one of the company’s flow-meter designs.

01:33:02	End of side.

Tape 4/Side 2

01:33:07	Most of PM’s consulting work was “not extensive,” he says. He chose to spend 	the majority of his time teaching and researching.

01:35:37	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

Third Interview Session (May 20, 1998): Tapes 5-7

Tape 5/Side 1

00:00:45	PM discusses his service on the Crow Committee beginning in 1967. This Committee was an ad-hoc committee established to deal with the student uprisings during the Vietnam War. 

00:03:37	The Crow Committee was composed of UW professors Beaman, Dolebearer, Hay, Lampman, Mosse, Penniman, Rauschenbush and the chairman, James Crow.   PM was the only COE representative on the committee.

00:04:25	PM says one of the functions of the Crow Committee was to make UW students feel they had more of a stake in the university decision making process. Many UW students at this time felt betrayed and ignored by the federal government, so the Crow Committee worked to make students feel like they had a legitimate voice.

00:06:32	The Crow Committee established a bilateral way of dealing with disciplinary action against rebellious students.

00:07:17	PM recalls that his service to the UW Faculty Senate was quite stressful during the Vietnam War period.

00:08:02	PM described Professor Crow as one of the UW’s most prominent faculty members and a superb leader.

00:10:20	The Crow Committee also examined and changed the UW student grading system, resulting in the A, AB, B, BC, C system.

00:11:43	PM thinks the AB grading system may hurt UW students when competing with students from other schools in areas like acceptance to graduate school and jobs.

00:12:29	PM recalls a meeting with faculty and students during the Vietnam Student Protests at the UW Stock Pavilion with then Senator Gaylord Nelson attending.  PM remembers being afraid that the meeting might end with the students physically confronting the faculty and Senator Nelson.

00:16:28	PM thinks his most valuable service was on the UW Physical Sciences Committee.  He served on this committee for three years and enjoyed debating whether or not certain faculty members deserved tenure. The dean of Letters and Science often had to make tenure decisions when the committee votes were too close.

00:18:39	PM felt that deciding the fate of talented young faculty members was not at all pleasurable, however he was impressed by how much time and thought committee members gave to each tenure decision.

00:20:28	The Physical Sciences Committee was also responsible for approving changes in science and engineering curricula.

00:21:53	PM was most recently on the Faculty Governance Commission, chaired by Professor Jim Weissberger. He remained on the Committee until he retired in 1993.

00:25:17	The Faculty Governance Committee was formed by faculty who took their committee work very seriously.

00:26:28	Some of the committees formed by the Crow Committee soon became committees that PM served on, such as the Student Conduct Committee and the Student Conduct Hearing Panel.

00:27:53	PM also served on some long-term committees like the Oceanography and Limnology Committee, which granted “committee degrees” in related subject areas.

00:29:28	Generally speaking, PM enjoyed committee service because it allowed him to meet other faculty.

00:29:56	PM participated in the UW Minority Mentor Program, established by former UW Chancellor Donna Shalala.

00:31:15	End of side.

Tape 5/Side 2

00:31:19	PM served on the UW COE Graduate Committee, which functioned to approve graduate curricula in the COE.

00:33:15	PM also served on the UW Mathematics Committee as the COE representative.

00:32:50	PM was proud of serving on the Minority Engineering Program Committee. The COE’s Al Hampton worked hard to create a positive environment for minority engineering students.

00:34:54	PM also served on the Engineering Foreign Program Committee, which he enjoyed because it made him feel a part of the engineering educational outreach effort. PM thinks the UW COE foreign programs are extremely important and a vital function of the COE.

00:37:31	PM discusses the idea behind the forming of the UW Faculty Senate.

00:39:13	The formation of the University Committee led to department committees with similar functions, which is another form of faculty governance. The department committees discuss budget issues and the hiring of departmental staff, such as secretaries.

00:41:52	As the associate chairman of the Civil and Environmental Engineering Department, PM’s responsibility was principally the graduate programs.

00:44:09	PM is a strong supporter of the Faculty Senate and the notion of faculty governance in general.

00:47:35	PM has grown to appreciate the fact that UW-Madison is one of the most democratic academic institutions in the United States. PM says the price that is paid, however, is that the faculty has less time to spend on teaching and research.

00:49:41	PM feels honored to have won so many Fulbright awards.

00:50:51	PM is quite proud of receiving France’s Palmes Academiques Award, which was a result of his educating and training so many French graduate students in the UW COE.

00:53:02	PM won the Ohnstad Award for Community Service for his work with the Boy Scouts and his local Episcopalian Church.

00:54:21	PM served as treasurer for Wisconsin Horizons Unlimited, an organization that gave loans to the disenfranchised for houses, education, cars, etc.

00:57:09	Once environmental concerns became a national concern, engineering schools began linking civil engineering with the new “environmental” engineering.

00:59:31	PM discusses the history of civil engineering. He notes that at one time there were only military and civil engineers. This changed in the late 19th century when other types of engineers—such as mechanical and chemical engineers—were added to the mix.

01:02:10	Starting in the early 1970s, sanitary engineers became known as environmental engineers.

01:02:27	End of side. End of tape.

Tape 6/Side 1

01:02:29	PM thinks that “Civil and Environmental Engineering” conveys the sum total of what the department is trying to accomplish.  

01:04:54	PM notes that in some places in Europe, like Holland, civil and environmental engineers are in an ongoing debate about whether the two fields should be under the same academic umbrella.

01:06:21	Students in the Civil and Environmental Engineering Department at UW can only receive a degree in civil engineering, but those who are interested in the environment usually indicate an environmental emphasis.

01:07:16	When PM came to the UW in 1961 he was stationed at the “Lakeshore Laboratory,” which is the red brick building now situated behind Helen C. White Library.

01:09:14	In 1964 the new engineering building, the creation of then dean Kurt Wendt, was completed and the entire hydraulic and sanitary engineering faculty moved to the southeast wing of the new building.

01:11:02	PM points out that it has been difficult to procure adequate laboratory space for the environmental engineering division. However, he believes that the laboratory space now held by the division is adequate.

01:12:54	PM says there has never been adequate office space for the department. Graduate students in the department are at most guaranteed a desk.

01:14:40	The old Engineering Experiment Station (EES) was generous in providing research apparatus for PM and his colleagues. Once the EES disbanded it was everyone for himself. Civil and Environmental Engineering faculty now rely solely on grantsmanship to acquire state-of-the-art research apparatus.

01:16:52	The UW COE Research Committee is responsible for funding the research of engineering graduate students.

01:17:24	The main issue that faced PM when he was department chairman, from 1990-93, was “financial difficulties,” that is, budget constraints. He had to learn to become adept at juggling the budget.

01:19:00	The chairman also was responsible for obtaining balanced enrollment in the various courses and maximizing the use of teaching assistants. 

01:20:09	Also PM took it upon himself as department chairman to create a spacious and comfortable conference room. The money for the room was donated by the Woodburn family.

01:24:59	As chairman, PM also organized a graduation luncheon for the graduates, their families, and department faculty.

01:29:30	As chairman PM also cleaned up the department honor society Chi Epsilon, which had become notorious on campus for its bad taste.

01:33:03	Only one new faculty member was hired in the department during PM’s three-year chairmanship, which, he feels, was a rather curious circumstance.

01:33:33	End of side.

Tape 6/Side 2

01:33:48	PM discusses the department’s faculty mentor system in which younger assistant professors are mentored by more senior professors.

01:35:25	The only hire PM was responsible for as chairman was Professor Pinchara, a UT-Austin graduate.

01:36:21	PM says that in general his department chairmanship was successful. He found the leadership role quite satisfying.

01:37:59	PM says that once the department title included “environmental engineering” the faculty had to become more enviro-sensitive in their teaching and research.

01:40:29	PM talks about the department taking on construction engineering and management shortly before his chairmanship. The environmental division rarely collaborates with the new construction division.

01:42:39	PM credits current department chairman Robert Smith for trying to get the construction and environmental sections to work together more.

01:43:22	PM says the department has experienced an influx of new faculty and that they are talented researchers and teachers.

01:44:19	PM had worked in the Army Math Research Center in Sterling Hall shortly before the bombing of the building during the Vietnam War.

01:46:16	PM says the Cold War had little, if any, impact upon the department.

01:51:27	PM says he had little contact with former COE dean Wendt so he does not feel comfortable commenting about his performance as dean. He notes that Wendt did several outstanding things for the COE.

01:56:07	PM does recall that Wendt chaired a campus committee that was responsible for protecting many of the trees on the UW campus during expansion.

01:56:39	PM says he did feel intimidated by Wendt and that he felt uncomfortable raising issues with him.

01:57:48	PM felt much more comfortable around former COE dean Robert Marshall. He found Marshall easy going and credits him with getting the Wendt Engineering Library built.

02:00:11	PM describes current COE dean John Bollinger as a micro manager who has a forceful personality. Bollinger believes strongly in “total quality management” (TQM), says PM.

02:01:14	PM says one of Bollinger’s main goals was to elevate the UW COE into the nation’s top-ten engineering schools.

02:02:10	PM says several faculty in his department have had a stormy relationship with Bollinger. However, Bollinger has created a fertile environment for faculty research, says PM.

02:04:54	End of side. End of tape.

Tape 7/Side 1

02:04:57	PM describes Bollinger as having “a tendency to shoot from the hip.” Bollinger is “a man in a hurry” and doesn’t allow people to get in his way, says PM.

02:07:30	Bollinger has a gift of politicking and of procuring private industry funds to improve the UW COE. PM admires Bollinger for his ability to get things done even though he can be a little heavy-handed at times.

02:08:56	PM considers Bollinger a friend and he respects his mission.

02:10:25	PM describes Bollinger’s desire to have a “Centers Building,” a centralized office for all the various COE departments. Bollinger also wants to provide engineering students with more space.

02:12:45	PM decided to retire in the summer of 1992, partly because he was having heart troubles during his department chairmanship. He actually retired in 1993.

02:15:08	PM was planning to retire at age 65, however he thought he would go out with a bang, that is, as department chair, at the age of 63. He just felt the need to reduce the stress in his life.

02:15:38	PM had a desire to teach part-time during his retirement, but he decided the money that would pay his limited teaching salary should go back to the department for a new faculty hire. But then PM had a plan that would allow him to teach and collect some salary along with his pension.

02:19:13	Dean Bollinger considered PM’s plan, adopted it, and allowed him to remain as a part-time teacher. He also permitted PM to take a leave of absence to teach in Germany.

02:27:08	PM taught Open Channel Hydraulics in the fall of 1997, in a one-sixteenth time teaching appointment.

02:27:34	A student satisfaction survey came out this year and it revealed that civil and environmental engineering students felt there was insufficient faculty advising and that they received better academic advice from their student peers.

02:30:03	PM was commissioned to begin a program that would resolve the faculty advising dilemma. He set up workshops for students to get a better sense of academic expectations and the real world of professional engineering.

02:33:38	PM decided to set up formal student-to-student academic advising programs prior to course registration. He enlisted Chi Epsilon members to do some of the student academic advising.

02:35:00	PM acted as the departmental resource person for this pre-registration academic advising program.

02:36:05	End of side.

Tape 7/Side 2

02:36:07	Students in the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering are now encouraged to seek out academic advice from fellow students before meeting with their faculty advisor.

02:38:00	This new student advising program occurred this spring and PM believes it was successful and will endure.

02:38:49	PM discusses his efforts teaching for the UW-Extension and the COE’s Engineering Professional Development Program. PM has set up courses both here and at the UW-Milwaukee aimed at helping students pass the engineering professional examinations.

02:41:23	PM has taught courses in Groundwater and Well Hydraulics for the UW-Extension program. He also has traveled the country extensively conducting short-courses.

02:42:04	PM has kept busy over the years teaching other hydrodynamics courses all over the world for the UW COE’s Engineering Professional Development Program.  These courses include Flood Routing and Wave Dynamics, among others.

02:44:30	In closing, PM says he has no regrets about coming to UW-Madison.  =He feels he has done most of the things he set out to do. “The UW is a marvelous institution,” says PM.

02:46:26	PM also emphasizes that he could not have done it without the support of his wife.

02:47:30	PM thanks the UW Oral History Project for providing him “the opportunity to say a few words.”

02:47:34	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

END