UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #387
PARSONS, DAVID G.

PARSONS, David G. (1911- )
Experimental College and Graduate Student
At UW: 1930-1934; 1936-1937

Interviewed: 1987	
Interviewer: Mailed questionnaire
Length: 2 hours, 51 minutes

Abstract: In his 1987 mailed-in questionnaire, former graduate student, David G. Parsons, discusses his time at the Experimental College from 1930-1937.  From 1930-1932, Parsons recalls his decision to attend the Experimental College and meeting Professor Alexander Meiklejohn.  Parsons also comments on the structure of his courses, discussions, projects, and curriculum.  The dissolution of the Experimental College is discussed, as well as the work of graduate students after the program.  This interview was conducted for inclusion into the UW—Madison Oral History Program. 

Keywords: Decision to attend Experimental College; Alexander Meiklejohn; Aims of curriculum; Individual student projects; Experimental College compared to regular colleges; Student activities in Experimental College; Academic advisors; Walter Agard; John and Harriet Powell; Dean Scott Goodnight; President Glenn Frank and announcement of closing of Experimental College; Experimental College graduates today.

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:00	Start of Interview

00:00:01	DP at Experimental College 1930-32; received B.A. in Art Department in 1934.  In 1937 DP received a Masters in art at UW.  DP from Chicago.  Mentions other family members.

00:01:33	How DP decided to attend Experimental College.  His meeting with Alexander Meiklejohn; arrival at Experimental College.  As freshman listened to classical music, drank tea.

00:06:25	Interest in sculpture.

00:07:52	Aims of curriculum: to get students to develop own personal value systems, develop critical thinking skills.  Meiklejohn's approach: "Whatever you do, do it well."

00:10:20	Program relied on self-discipline, courses not based on grades, attendance; no external mechanisms.  One grade at end of two-year period, based on two year project.

00:12:27	Meiklejohn's teaching style, his manner of running seminars.  First meeting with his students was very crucial.  Emphasis on quality.  First class had an impact on students years later.

00:17:20	Meiklejohn's outstanding athletic ability.

00:19:55	Describes hike with Meiklejohn and James Watrous.  His vigor, personality.

00:23:25	Meiklejohn's work on first and fifth amendments; opposition to Oliver Wendell Holmes and "clear and present danger" doctrine.  Received first American Freedom Medal.  Sat on UNESCO funding committee.

00:24:43	Spoke against Joseph McCarthy in defense of academic freedom.  Wrote briefs for defending California professors for refusing to take loyalty oaths.

00:26:20	Did not feel academic freedom was absolute.

00:27:33	More on curriculum.  Describes program that studied particular culture or civilization.  Meiklejohn chose Athenian civilization.  

00:30:38	Describes paper topics.  One was on determining right from wrong.

00:35:26	Second project—selecting a community of their choice to study; final paper a lengthy book review.

00:38:25	People received final grade, left for other programs, returned home, or stayed at University.

00:39:40	Met with advisor once a week.  New advisor every six weeks; major incentive came from other students.  Had daily meetings, speakers with open forum.  Some speakers stayed for several days, included Frank Lloyd Wright, Clarence Darrow, John R. Commons, politicians, poets.

00:44:20	Continues discussion on speakers.  What role the students took in their discussions.	

00:45:44	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 1

00:45:45	Difference between structure of class in Experimental College and other students' classes.  Experimental College students challenged or questioned their lecturers.  Much of training came from discussions amongst students.

00:48:15	Many Experimental College students from New York, many Jewish, well-read, directed.  Contrast with Midwestern Experimental College students.

00:50:05	Intellectual ferment occurred on campus.  Highly ranked nationally.  Was viewed as stimulating.

00:52:30	Politically, a widespread fear of communism.  Some believed University should be examined by legislature.  Beginnings of McCarthyism.  Gathering of students by library discussing ideas, creating controversy.

00:054:37	Weekly discussions among fourteen students.  Widespread enthusiasm.  Wide spectrum of political beliefs, differing family backgrounds.

00:57:28	Some spent much time reading, attending plays, lectures.

58:34		DP involved in workshops, music with band and symphony, cross-country, dance-group.

01:00:31	Experimental College all male at time.  Meiklejohn hoped for women in future.

01:02:15	DP invited to tea at women's residence hall to begin better integrating Experimental College students into campus.  A few attended dances there on weekends.

01:04:37	DP began teaching art to young children 2-5 years old in Julia Bogholt's class.  Also taught life drawing to fellow students.  

01:07:03	Joined discussion groups.  Explains some of his teaching methods.

01:11:24	More on academic advisors.  All liked Meiklejohn, devoted to students.  Very patient, sometimes severe in criticism.  John Powell, his sense of humor.

01:14:20	More on project on community of their choice.  They worked on over summer since during depression there were no jobs.  DP chose town of Stoughton for his study.

01:17:50	Studied American Civilization during their second year.  Mentions more on book review.

01:22:20	More on philosophy of learning at Experimental College.

01:24:45	Walter Agard, his first advisor.  Discusses his personality, advised him on sculpture.  

01:28:04	Anecdote about Greek sculpture.

01:32:24	End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:32:25	More on Walter Agard, entertaining students.  Instrumental in establishing Integrated Liberal Studies (ILS).  

01:33:42	Retirement gift from Experimental College alumni was a marble sculpture.

01:35:20	Another sculpture built in his memory, now in Helen C. White Library.

01:35:48	Greek lessons.  Maurice Neufeld translated Antigone into English as a sophomore, a translation that is used widely today.  What he did following Experimental College, anecdote about him at a reunion.

01:39:52	Another anecdote about an Agard student, Kieman Friar.  Greek play in stock pavilion.  

01:43:39	Description of set, special effects.

01:48:30	Passion play.

01:50:39	More on John Powell and his wife Harriet Powell.  She served as Meiklejohn's secretary.  Donald Meiklejohn served as another advisor.  He was a kindly but exacting teacher.  

01:55:33	Continues talking about portraits.  Mentions D. Otis, Mike Giles, Lucian Koch.  

01:58:50	Carl Bogholt was forbidding, working on philosophy doctorate.  Julia Bogholt's role in reunions.  

02:02:10	Bob Havighurst–a scientist.  DP did not have John Beecher as a professor. 

02:04:45	Did not have Paul Raushenbush as a professor neither.

02:05:40	Describes social life at college.  

02:07:50	Speakeasies--Perritori's, popular nightspot on Regent Street.  

02:09:50	Lomar’s.  

02:11:00	Music at Adams Hall.

02:15:13	Discusses use of students’ time.

02:16:37	Discusses students' pranks and jokes.

02:18:40	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2

02:18:41	More on pranks, anecdotes about students.

02:22:55	DP, other Experimental College students did not come into contact with Dean Scott Goodnight since they were free from university disciplinary system--this was dealt with internally.  

02:26:59	Discusses William Ellery Leonard's poems.  Anti-German sentiment on campus--Leonard brought people to examine consequences of their attitudes on this issue.  Anecdote of his defiance of an ordinance.

02:28:43	Glenn Frank's announcement to Experimental College that it would shut down.  University lost money on it, sentiment calling for increased conformity.  Frank was an austere person who never acknowledged students as he passed them.  

02:30:58	Contrast with Dykstra's personality.  Yet Dykstra got rid of all controversial figures.

02:32:16	Activity DP did as a Sophomore.

02:34:33	After students finished Experimental College program, they went back to farms, to other schools.  Some worked with Frank Lloyd Wright, others continued at UW.  Of eighteen Experimental College students, nine won top awards.

02:36:41	Experimental College students tested against other university students of same level on entering, using Carnegie test.  Experimental College exceeded seniors throughout country.

02:40:15	Meiklejohn an important reason for success of Experimental College.  Problem of departments allowing faculty to teach outside.  Lectures never given.

02:43:16	Discussion sections were norm in Experimental College.

02:44;30	In ILS today lectures given.  Today, universities focus on preparing students for job market.

02:47:30	Experimental College graduates in their seventies still very eager.  Young people always invited to participate in their reunions, sixteen year old might discuss issues with someone in their seventies on equal footing.  More on nature of reunions.

02:51:28	End of interview.

      					END