UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #358
McADAM, MARIANNE

McADAM, Marianne (1953- )
Graduate Student, Physical Education and Dance
At UW: 1976-1988

Interviewed: 1988	
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 54 minutes

Abstract: In her 1988 interview with Laura Small, Marianne McAdam discussed her time in the dance program at the University of Wisconsin-Madsion as a graduate student.  McAdam spoke about her experiences as a TA, her interest in the Wisconsin Tradition, injury courses, and her involvement in elective courses from 1976-1988.  McAdam also shared her opinions on the dance faculty, the difficulty of receiving a degree and issues within the program.  This interview was conducted for inclusion into the UW—Madison Oral History Program.

Keywords: Experiences as graduate student in dance; Continuation of Margaret H'Doubler tradition; Problems of Department; Elective program.

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction.

00:00:34	Question: How did you come to the University? Answer: Came with TAship to get M.A. in dance.  Reasons applied. Few places to obtain a degree in dance.  Interested in dance education.  Background.

00:01:57	Question: Did you know about the program before attending?  Answer: No. But MM knew one had to have teaching experience prior to becoming a TA.  The requirements.  MM's credits not honored.  Had to take undergraduate courses, e.g. rhythm.  Music classes would have been more helpful, because MM could not read music.  But this was the system.  Some were repeats to fill courses.  Fundamentals of Movement class very good, unique to Wisconsin.  MM had a background in jazz dance.  MM knew how helpful Fundamentals of Movement was.  Buff Brennan kept Wisconsin H'Doubler tradition.

00:06:02	[no question] The residencies good.  Nikolai fit in with H'Doubler tradition.  There was a lot of good technique taught.

00:07:24	[no question] Five years, 3 in course work, 2 working on M.A.  Work in biomechanics, which was not a part of dance program, but MM studied it to better understand her movements.  MM pursued sciences to supplement dance training.  

00:08:34	Question: Who was your adviser?  Answer: Brennan.  Also worked side-by-side with Betty Rogers.  

00:09:25	Question: Courses with other faculty members?  Answer: Yes. Had courses with everyone on faculty.  Lonny Gordon for technique.  Took classes from former Russian ballerinas.  Lonny did not carry on Wisconsin Tradition.  Lonny involved with arm positions.  Lonny was not always stable and often came late to class.  MM did not understand Lonny’s choreography or his views on women.  A petition to prevent Lonny from gaining tenure failed.  He did fit in.  The petition harmed the students who had to work with Lonny later.    

00:12:53	[no question] The departmental review.  Some changes happened.  

00:13:22	[no question] Anna Nassif.  She had a different approach to teaching.  Anna required a lot of paper writing.  Students had to learn how to say no to Anna and her demands.  Politics in the program.  

00:14:18	[no question] Inbreeding. A lot of faculty studied at UW.  Politically people were stuck, lacked fresh perspective.  

00:15:09	[no question] Improvements when Claudia Melrose came.  She had fresh ideas. 

00:15:36   	Question: Did the committee interview you?  Answer: Yes.  MM interviewed by review committee.  Brennan's difficulty getting tenure, even though she was the best in the program.  Dancers needed to be taking technique, teaching, and publishing.  Publication requirements unrealistic for dance faculty.  Administrators didn’t understand how much work dancers had.  Dancers didn’t have time to get tenure.  Brennan chair, as assistant professor, teaching.  The H'Doubler tradition needed to be kept alive.  If Buff left, then the Wisconsin Tradition would fade.  Nassif and Gordon were obstacles.

00:20:17	Question: Was Ellen Moore here when you started? Answer: No. MM knew her through social situations. 

00:20:34   	Question: What about the space available for the dance program?  Answer: Dancers used Lathrop Hall.  MM learned the most from colleagues.  Despite the problems Wisconsin had, the graduate students and faculty were excellent.  Lathrop a homey place.  There was a real sense of family.  Everything was in one building.  It was crowded though. 

00:23:20	Question: What did you do in the elective program?  Answer: Once a year there was a concert for elective students.  The elective program and its value for graduate student experience in teaching and for recruits for students.  Classes created their own performance for the concert.  Anyone who wanted to perform could.  Elective program the best thing in the program.  Older graduate students trained new ones.  MM would get people excited about dancing.  Bad decision to drop older graduates with lecturer appointments.  MM taught ballroom on her own time.  Jane Ayer decision made the quality of the program suffer.  An effort to concentrate resources.  Did not prepare TAs for their job.  Not wise.

00:28:05	Question: Didn’t anyone realize this would weaken the elective program?  Answer: No. No one cared.  They wanted to save themselves.  Everything was put into the program.  People were no longer going to come to Wisconsin for choreography.   

00:28:51	End of Tape 1, Side 1.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:28:52   	Question: Were you here when the dance therapy program was dropped.  Answer: Yes.  It was sad.  The dance therapy faculty dedicated to teaching.  They couldn’t get enough tenured staff, so they dropped the program.  The dance therapy faculty did hands-on work, not research.  Popularity seen as threat.  Lonny and Anna saw it as a threat.  It was sad to see the program go because it stepped away from technique.  

00:31:04   	Question: What about Judy Alter?  Answer:  She was in the injury program.  She wasn’t doing hardcore research.  Judy pulled in ideas from doctors to develop her own theory.  She didn’t get tenure and sued.  The lawsuit was messy, but she won the case.  Judy had problems with her own security.  Judy did not share UW’s ideas of research.  Judy’s work had a lot of value.

00:33:48   	Question: When did you get your Ph.D.?  Answer: There is no security without a Ph.D. Studied with Brennan.  MM had done the entire program during M.S.  Ph.D. program allows you to specialize outside of dance.  Brennan's encouragement of graduate students.  

00:36:18	Question:  Did your training in dance help you with your new job?  Answer: Yes.  Training in science helped.  A lot of dancers did not like the science courses.  MM saw the value in these classes.  Importance of dancers teaching exercise programs, due to knowledge of movement.   MM encouraged dancers to enrich their knowledge of dance.  

00:39:16	[no question] Mary Elliott's movement education program in schools.  Mary carried on Wisconsin Tradition.  Applied her education to physical education in schools.  

00:40:00	Question: Would you say you were affected by the H’Doubler tradition?  Answer:  Yes, but MM didn’t know it.  Influence of H'Doubler tradition.  Betty Roberts was a PE person and shared the joy she experienced out of simple movements.  Dance alumnae –MM got a sense of what the program was like before men joined.  Deterioration of department after combined with men's physical education.

00:42:41  	[no question] Comments on difficulties of getting master's degree.  Anna really rattled MM.  Dance very competitive.  MM was newly married when earning her MA.  As the years have gone by, MM started to remember the good parts of her degree.  More on Nassif.  

00:44:32	Question: Was grading fair?  Answer:  MM heard some faculty were not fair.  Lonny for example.  MM not graded poorly by Anna.  Other students left as emotional messes.  

00:45:57	Question: Has Anna changed? Answer: Anna lost power.  Her loss of power made the program easier.  Although some people had good experiences with Anna.      

00:47:06   	Question: Have you decided what you’re going to do with your Ph.D.?  Answer: No. MM’s main interest is working with adults and injuries.  MM has other interests in education.  Look at the idea of how people learn.  Plans for further research.

00:48:55   	Question: How did you get involved in ballroom dancing?  Answer: Due to popularity of ballroom dancing elective class.  There were 13 ballroom dance classes with 600 students.  The ballroom dance club started as well.  Have been able to send a student to BYU to further study ballroom dancing.  Teaching the instruction of ballroom dancing.  There was no course on how to teach dance.  This was a part of MM’s TAship.  MM also taught extension.  MM mainly got adults in her classes.  The club was so successful because of the classes.  A lot of engineering students involved.  

00:53:16	[no question] MM continues talking about her work in the elective dance class.  MM wants to continue to teach non-dancers.  There were many good things from the dance program.

00:54:04	End of Tape 1, Side 2. 

END OF INTERVIEW #358