UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #539
CORRY, JOE

CORRY, Joe (1932- )
Graduate Student; Associate Vice Chancellor, Academic Affairs and Outreach Development; Deputy to the Provost and Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs.
At UW: 1957-1960; 1963-1998

FIRST THROUGH EIGHTH INTERVIEWS 

Interviewed: 1999-2014	
Interviewer: Barry Teicher
Length: 11 hours, 52 minutes 
						
Background; Holy Cross; Navy service; Early graduate work at UW; Housefellow; Williston Academy; Graduate work with Philip Curtin; Peace Corps; Research in Kenya; Robert Clodius; UW Parkside and Green Bay; Fred Harvey Harrington; Merger and the Madison campus; Irving Shain; Student protest movement, Sterling Hall bombing and the TAA strike; Joseph Kauffman; F. Chandler Young; Department of Academic Affairs;  Academic Affairs staff members; Mercile Lee and the Academic Advancement Program; Undergraduate Admissions; New Student Services; Student Financial Aid; Computing on campus; Foreign Students and Faculty; Career Advising and Placement; Academic Services; Outreach; Extension education at UW and Harrington’s changes; Changes in extension programs after Merger; Office of Continuing Education; Regents Study Committee on Extension; Integration of extension faculty and services; Outreach and Extension after integration; Donna Shalala; David Ward; Futures Report and Future Directions booklet; Committee on Cooperation with Developing Universities; Records and Registration Committee; UW-Madison Continuing Education Council; System Advisory Council on Outreach; System Vice Chancellor’s Committee on Implementation of 1988 Regent Recommendations on Extension and Institutional Relationships; Assessment Council; Chancellor’s Committee on Arts Outreach; Associative Administrative Council; Culture of UW; UW System issues; UW-Madison Retirement Association.

First Interview Session (October 26, 1999): Tapes 1-2

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:22	JC describes growing up in South Milwaukee where he attended a Catholic grade school and a public high school.  Many of his relatives, including his mother, graduated from UW.

00:06:59	JC explains why he decided to attend Holy Cross.  He describes the curriculum at Holy Cross and discusses why he chose to major in History.

00:10:34	Upon graduation he joined the Navy.  He describes his duties in the Navy.

00:15:28	JC explains why he returned to UW after leaving the Navy.  At the UW he choose to study East-Asian History.  He discusses some of the professors he worked with including Phillip Curtin.

00:22:02	JC also served as a dormitory house fellow.  He describes his duties as house fellow and in subsequent summer positions within the Division of Housing.  After the summer, JC accepted a full-time job with Housing as assistant unit manager for Kronshage-Holt.

00:28:00	He describes his continuing graduate studies and a job offer he received from Williston Academy.

00:30:47	End of side.

Tape 1/ Side 2

00:30:58	JC attended the Rose Bowl as a train car chaperone and worked closely with Martha Peterson.

00:33:20	He explains why he chose to accept the position at Williston Academy.  Before leaving UW he completed his master’s thesis.  JC discusses his duties at Williston.

00:38:43	JC discusses summer courses in non-western history that he attended at Harvard.

00:40:12	He explains how he ended up returning to UW.  JC describes his job in Loans and Undergraduate Scholarships.

00:46:40	JC describes his continuing graduate education in African history where he worked with Phillip Curtin.

00:49:52	He discusses how he became an assistant in the Foreign Studies & Faculty Studies office.  JC describes how he met Joseph Kaufman.

00:54:42	From September to December 1964 JC worked at UW-Milwaukee on a project with the Peace Corps.  He describes his duties as project director.  JC explains how he became interested in studying Kenya.

01:01:44	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

00:00:17	JC discusses his dissertation study and his attempts to obtain research funding.  Through the Ford Foundation, he obtained a job at the University of East Africa.  He discusses Kenyan attitudes toward Americans.  He describes some of his duties at the University of East Africa and talks about some of the difficulties of having his family in East Africa.

00:16:19	He describes his dissertation research in Africa.

00:20:23	JC returned to Madison in April 1969 and worked as an assistant to Robert Clodius.  He describes the experience of working for Clodius.  JC served as secretary for Clodius’ monthly meetings with the UW System chancellors.

00:22:58	JC judges that he learned a lot during his job with Clodius and explains how this influenced his subsequent administrative style.

00:26:26	He describes his work with the Parkside and Green Bay campuses and discusses some of the organizational and personal difficulties with the two campuses.  JC declined an offer to become an associate vice chancellor at UW-Parkside.

00:31:02	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2

00:31:20	JC gives his impressions of Fred Harvey Harrington.  He outlines the relationships between UW-Madison and the other campuses.  The faculty at UW System schools rarely interact except on a professional level.

00:36:29	JC talks about how people in System perceived Merger.  He discusses the reaction on the Madison campus.  JC describes the impact of increased funding opportunities.  He outlines the discussions revolving around the idea of a second Madison campus.

00:42:24	In 1971, JC became an assistant to Vice Chancellor Irving Shain.  JC describes the dismantling of the office of vice chancellor of student affairs.  Eventually, JC became the supervisor of the newly created Division of Academic Services, and Paul Ginsberg (sic?) is made dean of students.

00:50:09	He describes Shain’s administrative style.

00:54:11	End of side.  End of tape.

Second Interview Session (November 17, 1999): Tapes 3-4

Tape 3/Side 1

00:00:50	JC describes the mood of the campus during the period of student protests, especially the TA strike and the Sterling Hall bombing.

00:05:06	He discusses the appointment of Joseph Kauffman as dean of students.  JC also discusses the assistant deans.  He evaluates Kauffman’s effectiveness as dean and outlines the organizational make-up of the dean of students’ office. 

00:09:20	JC discusses Kauffman’s replacement, F. Chandler Young.

00:13:03	He describes the decision making process behind mandatory budget cuts within Student Affairs.  These changes included a reduction in housing and counseling services and the decision to re-constitute some of units in the Division of Academic Services.

00:18:22	JC discusses the staff of Academic Services including Jim Churchill and Blair Matthews.  He describes the composition and function of the Associate Administrative Council.  JC talks about other academic staff members and changes in the department’s facilities.

00:30:10	JC begins discussing Mercile Lee.

00:30:50	End of side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:30:54	JC describes the hiring and duties of Mercile Lee.  He assesses the importance of issues dealing with diversity and affirmative action during the 1970s and 1980s.

00:36:28	He explains the origins and purpose of the Chancellors Scholarship Program for Undergraduate and Disadvantaged Students.  JC describes the fundraising efforts for minority scholarships and describes how the program has changed over time.

00:47:12	JC discusses the Academic Advancement Program.  He traces the development of the minority advancement programs within the University. 

00:53:19	JC describes the functions of the Registrar during his tenure on campus.  He discusses efforts to improve the course registration process.

01:01:43	End of side. End of tape.

Tape 4/Side 1

00:00:09	JC explains the origins and development of the touchtone telephone registration system.  He outlines the contentiousness of the changeover process and describes how the Degree Audit Reporting System (DARS) was developed.

00:13:10	He describes the functions of the undergraduate admissions office.  JC characterizes this office as the most political due to outside pressures to influence admissions.  He discusses some of the directors of the office including Lee Wilcox and Dave Vinson.

00:21:40	JC discusses the issue of in-state versus out-of-state tuition rates and the percentage of non-resident admissions.  He explains tuition reciprocity agreements with Minnesota.  JC discusses minority recruitment.

00:29:56	He discusses New Student Services and Jack Kellesvig.

00:31:00	End of side.

Tape 4/Side 2

00:31:02	JC continues discussing Jack Kellesvig.  He outlines the development of new student orientation programs at UW.  JC discusses how UW personnel helped prevent many high schools from dropping foreign language programs.

00:37:57	UW- Madison’s placement exams are now in use throughout the UW system.  He discusses the use of standardized tests and the impact of preparatory courses.

00:43:25	He describes the primary function and growth of the Student Financial Aid division.  JC outlines the difficulties of administering federal monies.  He speculates on what impact students carrying higher loan amounts will have on future alumni contributions.

00:53:59	JC discusses the long-time director of Student Financial Aid Wally Douma.  He also discusses Elizabeth Conklin.

00:57:57	JC served on several computer committees during his tenure at UW.  He describes some problems with Administrative Data Processing.  

01:02:13	End of side.  End of tape.

Third Interview Session (November 22, 1999): Tape 5

Tape 5/Side 1

00:00:40	JC continues to describe attempts to move away from a centralized computing network to individual servers and systems.

00:01:54	He details the functions of the Office of Foreign Students and Faculty and discusses the staff.  Chancellor Donna Shalala separated the faculty and students divisions of the office.  JC describes the group Friends of Foreign Students.

00:13:53	JC describes the functions and operations of Career Advising and Placement.  He discusses the directors of the office including Edward Weidenfeller and Tom S. Johnson.  JC judges that there were few recruiting problems after the Dow Chemical Company protests.  He discusses the connections between the placement offices of different colleges.

00:23:15	He discusses his service on enrollment management committees.  JC describes a three level student fee system that was in place during the 1970s.

00:28:15	JC discusses staff meetings within Academic Services and Decision Item Narratives (DINs). 

00:30:48	End of side.

Tape 5/Side 2

00:30:54	JC talks about departmental morale within Academic Services.

00:33:01	He discusses his immediate superiors during his tenure in Academic Services: Irving Shain, Bryant Kearl and Bernard Cohen.  Shain was quite active during the first years of Academic Services. JC recalls that Shain and Kearl often edited reports heavily.

00:41:48	JC describes the major changes in Academic Services during his administration, including computerization and a slowdown in enrollment.  He believes his biggest accomplishment was encouraging the delegation of authority within departments.  JC regrets that he did not have enough time to develop stronger relations with high schools.

00:45:53	End of side.  End of tape.

Fourth Interview Session (January 21, 2000): Tapes 6-7

Tape 6/Side 1

00:00:29	JC defines outreach as a response to the term “extension” and that it signifies expanding the boundaries of the campus to the boundaries of the state.  He explains the differences between outreach, continuing education and cooperative extension.

00:04:12	JC discusses different meanings of the Wisconsin Idea.

00:06:07	He outlines the early history of extension education at UW.  JC discusses the development of the Centers or two year campuses.  He explains Fred Harvey Harrington’s cooperative agreement with black universities during the early 1960s.

00:14:28	JC describes the ways Harrington changed Extension.  Harrington wanted to make UW a leader in urban extension.  JC explains the selection of Don McNeil as Chancellor of Extension and evaluates his performance.

00:18:50	JC judges that the Madison faculty was not very concerned with the changes in Extension.  In the 1960s few people expressed concern over the establishment of the new institution, Extension.  He evaluates Harrington’s handling of Extension.

Tape 6/Side 2

00:30:21	JC continues his evaluation of Harrington’s work on Extension.  He explains 	some of the 	challenges facing the leadership of Extension.

00:34:43	JC believes that Merger was inevitable.  He describes the extension programs at other UW institutions.  JC explains how these programs were effected after Merger.

00:37:49	John Weaver, the first System president after Merger, decided to revitalize the Wisconsin Idea. Although the Madison campus had no official representatives on the committee assigned to recommend a plan of reorganization, JC attended the meetings on an unofficial basis to protect Madison’s interests.  He describes the committee’s recommendations and explains how they were largely ignored.

00:45:04	JC discusses a faculty committee appointed by the chair of the University Committee to examine UW—Madison’s potential role in adult continuing education compares this committee’s report to previous recommendations.

00:48:48	He outlines the history of the Office of Continuing Education and describes his appointment as director.  JC details the functions and departments of the Office of Continuing Education.  He discusses the extended timetable and describes its impact on campus.

01:02:52	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 7/Side 1

00:00:31	JC describes the counseling services for adults and discusses how it changed during his time on campus.

00:02:39	Non-Credit Outreach was another important department within the Office of Continuing Education.  JC discusses Off-Campus Credit Courses.  He describes a program from the 1960s to develop television courses.  Ultimately, the weak results of the off-campus programs led to a loss of interest among the faculty.

00:17:23	JC explains the concepts of the External Degree and Competency Based programs.  He outlines the development of these programs throughout the UW System.  JC describes the interactions between these programs and UW—Extension.

00:25:53	JC describes the relationship between the Law School and the extended timetable.

00:28:08	He discusses the office of provost for University Outreach and the first provost, Wilson Thiede.

00:30:54	End of side.

Tape 7/Side 2

00:31:03	JC discusses E. Nelson Swinerton and the System Advisory Committee on Outreach (SACO).  JC was the principle liaison with Extension.

00:33:58	JC believes that the faculty regretted losing influence over WHA television.  He describes other conflicts between Extension and the Madison campus.

00:36:50	He remarks on Cooperative Extension and its difference from general Extension.

00:40:38	End of side.  End of tape.

Fifth interview Session (January 25, 2000): Tapes 8-9

Tape 8/Side 1

00:00:30	JC describes the state of Extension before integration.  He outlines the budgetary situation of Extension during the 1970s and 1980s.  JC explains why Extension funding was cut significantly during this period.

00:15:49	In 1980, the Board of Regents created a Regents Study Committee on Extension.  JC explains why the Regents created the Committee and discusses some of the goals of the Committee.  He lists the final recommendations of the Committee which includes integration at three levels: departmental, school-college and institutional.  JC discusses other aspects of the Committee’s report.

00:21:22	JC speculates on the reasons why the state decided to reduce the Extension budget.  He describes the changing composition of the Board of Regents.

00:26:50	JC describes the process by which the Madison-based Extension faculty was integrated into the Madison campus.
	
00:30:53	End of side.

Tape 8/Side 2

00:30:59	JC continues his discussion about the process employed to integrate Extension faculty into the UW Madison campus.  By and large the process went smoothly although there was some resistance.

00:36:05	He discusses the appointment of Bryant Kearl as dean of University Outreach.

00:41:29	JC was then part-time associate vice chancellor for Academic Services and also part-time associate dean of University Outreach.  He outlines his role in integration and in Extension programming.  JC discusses Patrick Boyle’s roles during integration.

00:53:01	JC describes the Board of Regents’ 1988 evaluation on the effectiveness of integration.

00:58:14	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape9/Side 1

00:00:24	JC explains the problems relating to the fact that UW Extension held the budget authority while the individual campuses were responsible for programming.  He expresses disappointment because the amount of time spent on administration prevented him from helping to create innovative programming.
	
00:05:18	He outlines the budgetary difficulties of Extension and details the economic relationship between Extension and the Madison campus.

00:13:02	JC describes his duties as chief officer for Outreach Development.  He discusses the organization of Outreach Development.

00:15:04	He discusses the nursing unit of Outreach.

00:24:28	JC evaluates Donna Shalala’s management of Outreach Development.  He describes some of the problems resulting from Shalala’s hiring of deans from off campus.

00:30:52	End of side.

Tape 9/Side 2

00:30:57	JC talks about his relationship with David Ward.

00:33:43	He describes the difficulties of dealing with new deans.  JC discusses some of the problems facing Shalala’s administration.

00:36:37	JC outlines the condition of Outreach when he left office in 1995.  He details the reasons why he left the position.  JC describes some of the recent changes in the Outreach program, including developments in instructional technology.

00:42:01	JC evaluates the development of Extension and Outreach during his years on campus.  He highlights the importance of the Wisconsin Idea in the state.

00:45:55	End of side.  End of tape.

Sixth Interview Session (March 7, 2000): Tapes 10-11

Tape 10/Side 1

00:00:48	JC outlines his involvement in a 1987 self-analysis report prepared for the North Central Accreditation Association.  He describes the conclusions of the review team’s report and explains how the report was generated.  He discusses some of the potential problems and fears involved in re-accreditation.

00:13:08	He discusses the origins of some attacks on UW by the Board of Regents.  JC describes how these discussions affected the next re-accreditation report.  He explains the reaction to a legislative audit of the UW System.  Much of the audit report focused on the quality of undergraduate education.  This report formed the basis of the Futures Report.

00:25:00	JC describes discussions about the Futures Report with the North Central Accreditation liaison to UW.  He talks about the people at UW most involved in the project.  JC describes meetings with other university administrators in the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (CIC) that discussed similar issues.

00:28:42	He discusses the committee charged with creating the Futures Report including the chair Fannie LeMoine.

00:30:46	End of side.

Tape 10/Side 2

00:30:52	JC outlines the duties of the committee’s project assistant.

00:32:20	He discusses the formation of the committee itself and its members.  JC describes the atmosphere and activities of the committee.

00:37:37	The first step was to bring in futurist Beldon Paulson from UW-Milwaukee.  He describes some of the other speakers who addressed the committee.

00:42:35	JC describes the beginning of the work on the two volume report.  One of the key factors was a review of enrollment management.  He recalls they encountered few significant difficulties on the project.  JC recalls that LeMoine kept the committee in good spirits.

00:51:14	He explains the process of writing and editing the report.  JC wrote the section on continuing education and worked on several other parts as well.

00:53:48	JC discusses new chancellor Donna Shalala’s input to the report.

00:56:05	He outlines the difference between the longer volumes and the shorter report.  JC describes the reception of the report on campus, at System and by the Board of Regents.  He discusses the disappointing reaction of the North Central Accreditation Board to the report.

01:01:38	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 11/ Side 1

00:00:08	JC explains the connection between a 1969 presentation on Interdisciplinary Studies on the Future of Man and the Futures Report.

00:02:29	He makes some additional remarks about CIC involvement in the Futures Report.  JC talks about the reaction among other Big Ten schools to the Futures Report.  He discusses the changes created by federal government involvement in accreditation decisions.  JC describes his service on a CIC committee created to evaluate accreditation.

00:13:02	JC compares the mission statements of the 1978 and 1988 reports.

00:15:00	He summarizes the six directions from the booklet Future Directions, The University in the 21st Century.  JC highlights the changes in programs for freshmen students and describes a section suggesting the need for a special committee on the arts.  JC explains a theme of the report called a continuum of education.  He discusses attempts to create a stronger sense of community between faculty and academic staff.

00:22:40	JC describes the implementation of the Futures Report.

00:30:50	End of side.

Tape 11/Side 2

00:31:00	He discusses the influence of previous reports on the latest accreditation document called Targeting Tomorrow.  JC explains some of the challenges of planning for the future on an annual basis.

00:35:33	End of side.  End of tape.    			

Seventh Interview Session (May 3, 2000): Tapes 12-13

Tape 12/Side 1

00:00:50	JC describes the origins of the Committee on Cooperation with Developing Universities.  He names some of the other committee members including R. Creighton Buck, Ralph Benedict and Ronald Bornstein and describes some of the group’s projects, such as a student exchange program with predominately black southern universities.

00:11:51	JC served on the Records and Registration Committee from 1971-85 and served as chair for most of that period.  He describes the major changes in registration procedures.

00:20:20	He describes ways of improving registration, which included automation and advanced registration periods.

00:23:25	JC describes the functions of the UW-Madison Continuing Education Council.  He discusses attempts to expand the timetable to include evening courses.

00:30:43	End of side.

Tape 12/Side 2

00:30:47	He continues his discussion about the UW-Madison Continuing Education Council, outlining the evolution of the committee.

00:33:12	JC also served as the Madison representative on the System Advisory Council on Outreach.  He describes some of the contentious issues, such as territorial disputes, raised in committee.  JC explains some of the problems related to the constant turnover of Council personnel.

00:44:14	JC outlines the purpose of UW Extension and discusses the differences between Extension and Cooperative Extension.  He describes the conflicts over funding and revenue between the state legislature and UW campuses.

00:51:40	JC served on the System Vice Chancellor’s Committee on Implementation of 1988 Regent Recommendations on Extension and Institutional Relationships.  He describes the contentious atmosphere of the committee meetings but acknowledges that eventually some constructive decisions emerged.

01:01:34	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 13/Side 1

00:00:24	JC judges that the issues dealt with the by the committee have been resolved.  He outlines some recent changes in the attitudes of UW System and Extension leadership which have improved relationships between the two groups.

00:03:44	JC calls the Scott-Schten Committee on Integration an excellent example of a committee that solved a difficult problem.

00:05:33	He discusses the Assessment Council, which he chaired from 1991-97.  JC outlines the role of Steven F. Bauman in developing assessment procedures.

00:11:24	JC describes faculty reaction to the work of the Assessment Council.   He describes the distribution and use of the final report.

00:15:06	He explains the origins of the Chancellor’s Committee on Arts Outreach as an attempt to keep Parry Karp and the Pro Arte Quartet from leaving campus.  JC outlines the role of Ken Chraca.

00:20:35	JC also was a member of the Associative Administrative Council.

00:22:27	End of side.  End of tape.         

Eighth Interview Session (June 7, 2000): Tapes 14-15

Tape 14/Side 1

00:00:31	JC declares that the most enjoyable part of his career was meeting interesting people in a variety of departments.  He discusses other positive aspects of his career.

00:03:00	He describes elements of his jobs that he disliked, especially having to deal with the distinction between faculty and staff on campus.

00:05:08	JC outlines the culture of UW and describes how it changed over the course of his career.  He discusses the physical changes of the campus and their effects on the culture.  JC also describes the impact of the growing size of UW.

00:15:38	He discusses the successes he experienced during his career at UW, including reviving the Wisconsin Idea Seminar and creating the extended timetable for evening classes.

00:25:14	JC lists some of his non-successes.  He addresses some of the pressures that constrained his actions and decisions, including state regulations and financial considerations.  JC discusses the growth of faculty governance.

00:30:44	End of side.

Tape 14/Side 2

00:30:48	He continues his discussion of faculty governance.
	
		JC discusses the relationship between campus leadership and System administration.  He evaluates the performance of System president John Weaver.
					
00:33:22	He outlines the ideal organization of Extension, arguing for a return to the pre-1965 structure.  JC suggests possible changes in Extension.

00:42:56	JC describes the changing relationship between Madison and other UW campuses.  He discusses quality assessment measures developed through System-wide committees.  The relationship between technical colleges and the UW System is a continuing issue.

00:50:59	JC comments that a career like his would probably not be possible today because of increasing specialization.

00:55:29	He describes his decision to retire.  JC outlines his post-retirement work on special projects.  

01:00:22	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 15/Side 1

00:00:22	JC describes his work as executive director of the UW-Madison Retirement Association.   He discusses the activities of the Association.

00:10:40	JC makes some closing remarks regarding future alumni attitudes and contributions.  He discusses some concerns he has regarding changing technologies and increasing connections with corporations at UW.

00:19:23	End of side.  End of tape.    
					
NINTH INTERVIEW (February 23, 2010)

Interviewed: 2010
Interviewer: Unstated
Length: 44 minutes
Index: Jill Slaight

	Abstract: In his 2010 interview with an unnamed interviewer, Joe Corry discusses academic staff issues and governance on campus. This interview was conducted for inclusion in the UW-Madison Oral History Project. 

Keywords: academic staff; Office of Academic Affairs; classified staff; UW System Merger; Irv Shain; Office of Special Students; Nancy Abraham; State Legislature; Faculty Senate; faculty status; Madison Academic Staff Association (MASA); Academic Staff Assembly; Academic Staff Executive Committee; David Ward; Donna Shalala. 	
	
Ninth Interview Session (February 23, 2010): Digital File

Time		Keywords
00:00:00		Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction. 

00:00:31	Question: Role on campus today? Answer: Joe Corry (JC) explains that he is no longer officially connected to the University, having served seven years of his retirement as Executive Director of the UW-Madison Retirement Association. Follow-up: Former role? Answer: Associate Vice Chancellor for Academic Affairs. He left that position in 1996 and had served there since 1971. Before that, he occupied roles in University Housing, Student Financial Aid, and the UW System. During his time at UW-Madison, JC was either a student or academic staff.

00:02:16	Question: Situation of academic staff on campus during his career?  Answer: JC mentions the “incredible growth” of academic staff during this time period – particularly compared to the growth of faculty. The interests of academic staff widened as a result. 

00:03:56	Question: Work of academic staff in this early period? Answer: Their work existed mainly in registration and records management. The loans and scholarship division employed only a handful of people. JC speculates that as faculty members’ workload increased, more administrative tasks fell on academic staff. 

00:06:05	Question: Origin of term “academic staff”? Answer: JC unsure about the origins of this term or when it appeared. Follow-up: Classification system that labelled employees “classified staff” or “academic staff”? Answer: This system came into effect after the UW System Merger. 

00:07:44	Question: Your identification as an “academic staff member”? Answer: JC guesses that he began identifying this way in the mid-1960s. He understood that he was not faculty but that he enjoyed greater freedom than most classified staff members. Follow-up: Connections among academic staff at that time? Answer: Student personnel associations met formally, but staff members also met informally to talk about work-related problems. 

00:09:22	Question: Issues that academic staff discussed? Answer: JC began by briefly discussing the effects of Sputnik and the first Federal Student Loan Program on higher education. The University hired more staff as a result of these changes, but staff members wondered “Where’s the University going?” 

00:11:01	Question: Relationships between academic staff and both faculty and classified staff? Answer: These relationships depended on who one worked for or alongside. Some academic staff had “faculty status” and participated in the Faculty Senate. Follow-up: Were those people involved in instruction? Answer: No. As examples, JC cites the Director of Housing and the Director of Memorial Union. Eventually, they lost this status. Follow-up: Did people strive to gain this status? Answer: Some did, but most paid little attention.

00:14:17	Question: Patterns of relationships between academic staff and others? Answer: Corry mentions the creation of the Office of Special Students, which addressed challenges faced by part-time students. A spontaneously-formed committee had approached Irv Shain and asked him to establish such an office. Nancy Abraham would become its Director. Abraham did not reap the same recognition as faculty did although her responsibilities were similar to theirs. Tensions arose from situations like these. 

00:17:00	Question: Personal experiences with faculty on campus? Answer: JC notes that while working for Irv Shain, his status as the Vice Chancellor’s emissary colored his reception at meetings. 

00:18:19	Question: Relationships between academic staff and classified staff? Answer: JC reiterates that the tone of each different office determined the quality of intra-staff relationships. The best faculty leaders respected classified staff “to the utmost.” 

00:19:11	Question: Organizing of academic staff governance? Answer: JC speculates that it began after the State Legislature made a provision in law for academic staff governance. The Academic Staff Assembly was launched, but it needed a unifying “sense of purpose.” By then, academic staff was so specialized that many people rarely interacted. 

00:21:30	[No Question.] JC explains that although the Legislature gave governance the go-ahead, no chancellor had demonstrated direct support for the measure.  The “most significant transition” occurred when David Ward became Chancellor. Ward met regularly with the Academic Staff Executive Committee, whose work he appreciated. 

00:23:18	Question: Participation in the Academic Staff Executive Committee? Answer: No, he was not ever called to attend. Follow-up: JC’s identity as academic staff? Answer: He was not active in academic staff issues around campus. 

00:24:22	Question: How did governance proceed from that point? Answer: JC steps back to describe how Madison Academic Staff Association (MASA) had initially pressed the State Legislature for governance. Meanwhile, academic staff at UW-Milwaukee mobilized to the same end. JC jokes that supporting academic staff was one way for some state legislators to “needle the faculty.”

00:25:45	Question: Tension around this issue at that time? Answer: Well before this time, there was tension around whether academic staff would form a union. The MASA-affiliated group did not want a union, but rather a separate distinction. 

00:26:52	Question: People active in MASA and their goals? Answer: JC was not directly involved and “life went on pretty normally” for him.  His interactions were limited to working with people in student service-oriented jobs. Salary concerns emerged when staff in one sector realized that their Madison Area Technical College (MATC) counterparts earned more than they did. 

00:29:17	Question: His job impacted by these issues? Answer: No.

00:29:42	Question: Academic staff governance successful in achieving its goals? Answer: Yes. It gave greater structure to careers in academic staff. It was also important as a site where people could air and listen to each other’s concerns. JC reasons that a similar structure would be helpful for classified staff. 

00:31:31	[No Question.] Corry relates staff issues detailed above to the System Merger and Madison’s reluctance toward it. Academic staff would eventually play a key role in designing Merger-related policies and changes. 

00:34:25	Question: Expansion of academic staff roles in the 1990s? Answer: JC explained that academic staff roles had already expanded by the mid-1970s. 

00:37:14	Question: Responsibilities in the Vice Chancellor’s office? Answer: In his role, Corry dealt with issues of registration, financial aid, and admissions. He also focused on developing Continuing Education in what he called “a quasi-faculty position.” 

00:40:06	Question: Major changes he witnessed on campus? Answer: Corry cites the growing role of academic staff in advising students. Follow-up: Involvement in Student Personnel Association? Answer: None. His staff participated. 

00:42:45	Question: Anything to add about academic staff? Answer: No, beyond noting that the University benefits from excellent academic staff. 

00:44:06	End of Ninth Interview Session.

TENTH INTERVIEW (February 17, 2014)

Interviewed: 2014
Interviewer: Peyton Smith
Length: 43 minutes
Index: Jill Slaight

	Abstract: In his 2014 interview with Peyton Smith, Joe Corry discusses his role in the creation of the Chancellor’s Scholarship Program. He focuses on the vision and efforts of Mercile Lee, who launched the program and ensured its success. This interview was conducted for inclusion in the UW-Madison Oral History Project. 

Keywords: student activism; protests; Chancellor’s Scholarship Program; UW Foundation; Marion Brown; Mercile Lee; Bryant Kearl; Bernie Cohen; Irv Shain; The Madison Plan; diversity; mentors; mentees. 
	
Ninth Interview Session (February 17, 2014): Digital File

Time		Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction. 

00:00:42	Question: Minority recruitment efforts in the 1970s? Answer: Joe Corry (JC) explains that the University had just experienced an extended period of “strife,” which included protests and strikes. Chancellor Ed Young had hired Irv Shain as his Vice Chancellor. Paul Ginsberg served as Dean of Students. Campus unrest led the University to dismantle the Office of Student Affairs and to “farm out” its responsibilities to other offices.  Meanwhile, the University began an academic advancement program called “The Five Year Program.” 

00:04:35	Question: Recruitment of Mercile Lee? Answer: JC explains that Roger Howard had met and recruited her through his involvement in campus-wide committees. Corry himself had met Roger at the Ad-Hoc Staff, meetings that Paul Ginsberg had established as a place for academic staff in Bascom to meet and talk informally. Minority issues had emerged during these meetings. Howard recruited Lee her into the Provost’s Office (where she began working in 1980).

00:07:28	Question: Her role in the Provost’s Office? Answer: JC praises her ability to present ideas and propel them forward, referring to the minority scholars program she devised at that time. JC backtracks to explain why the UW Foundation was then reluctant to launch scholarship drives. It proceeded only on the condition that the Chancellor’s Foundation would fund half the program, and hired Marion Brown to oversee the program. Influential people soon came on board.  

00:11:39	Question: Irv Shain’s approval and Bryant Kearl’s petition for contributions? Answer: JC is uncertain. He and the interviewer discuss the University’s efforts to demonstrate they had “skin in the game.” Follow-up: Involvement in bringing Marion Brown on board? Answer: Corry attributes the idea to Mercile alone. The interviewer interjects to mention Martha Tayler’s involvement. Follow-up: Was there an oversight committee that worked with Mercile? Answer: If there was, JC was not involved in one. 

00:15:36	Question: How did Mercile “sell” the program to Bry Kearl? Answer: Bry postured himself as a tough sell.  Irv Shain relied on his judgment. The interviewer shares an anecdote about the meeting in which Bry communicated approval for the program.

00:17:53	Question: Would any campus administration have accepted the program? Answer: Both Kearl and Shain had lived through the “horrendous period” that came before. When Ed Young left to lead the system, Shain assumed his place, hiring Bry Kearl as his Vice Chancellor.

00:20:28	Question: When did Bernie Cohen come into the picture? Answer: Kearl reached the short-lived mandatory retirement age that existed at that time, and Cohen replaced him.  He later became acting Chancellor until Donna Shalala assumed that role and hired him as a one-year Vice Chancellor. 

00:22:45	Question: Future Directions Report? Answer: It began under Bernie Cohen’s year as Vice Chancellor in the late 1980s. At that time, they faced institutional reaccreditation – a tiresome process. JC and Bernie sought to reform the process. 

00:25:13	[No Question.] JC transitions into discussing the Madison Plan, the brainchild of Donna Shalala, which emphasized diversity. 

00:26:48	[No Question.] JC backtracks to discuss how the Chancellor’s Scholarship Program functioned after its initial approval. Above all, they needed to attract exceptional students, ensure that those students received support, and hire a director would could “make it work.” Mercile was successful because of her partnership with Marion, who ironed out financial issues. They had great teamwork. The narrator comments on Mercile’s role as an “adult friend” to students and an atypical mentor as such. 

00:29:54	Question: How did Mercile Lee get “top level” administration and faculty on board? Answer: The diversity of mentors across campus ensured that people would talk about the program – and they did very enthusiastically. 

00:32:06	Question: How did the program influence the campus more broadly? Answer: Corry remarks that the early scholars’ success changed attitudes toward diversity and scholarships on campus, changes that benefitted Donna Shalala.

00:34:53	Question: Personal experiences with mentoring? Answer: Corry had two mentees with radically different outcomes. He admits that his “batting average is not great.” That interviewer shares his own challenges as a mentor. Together, they discuss the obstacles that NCAA regulations raise with regard to mentoring athletes. 

00:37:03	[No Question.] The interviewer raises the subject of institutional funds and gift resources in the early years of the program. 

00:38:40	Question: Anything else to discuss? Answer: Corry notes Mercile Lee’s modesty. Lee did not wish for “glowing” reports of the program to overshadow scholarship efforts that preceded her own. Reflecting on the importance of her long hours, he shares his hope that the current program’s staff can be present in the office between 5-10 p.m. to meet students’ needs. 

00:43:00	End of 10th Interview Session. 

END