UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #149
RUDIN, MARY ELLEN

RUDIN, Mary Ellen (1924- )
Professor of Mathematics
At UW: 1959-1991

First Interview
Interviewed: 1979	
Series: Humanists at Work
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 1 hour
 
Background and education; University mathematics instructors; Desirable traits for mathematics career; Teaching; Elementary mathematics teachers as students; Choosing problems; Language of mathematics; Work method; Difficulties of women mathematicians; Interaction with colleagues and graduate students; Teaching undergraduates; Writing and lecturing; Mathematician couples.

Second Interview
Interviewed: 1981	
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 2 hours

Preston Hammer; Numerical Analysis Laboratory; Development of Department of Computer Sciences; Mathematics Department and use of computers; Mathematics Research Center; Mathematics Department; TAA; Building Van Vleck Hall.

Tape 1/Side 1     

00:00:01  	Applied and pure mathematics.

00:02:55  	Grew up in Texas, small high school.   

00:04:00  	Took wide range of subjects at University of Texas.   

00:04:54  	Her teacher in math--how he looked for potential math students.   

00:06:43  	His technique of teaching, background.   

00:08:00  	What she did and didn't learn.  

00:09:51  	Comments on teaching; compares to history; more on his teaching methods.   

00:12:44  	Took job aptitude test senior year, still not having decided on career.  Results.   

00:13:56  	Parents' background and careers.   

00:15:11  	More on her math teacher.   

00:17:10  	On math teachers in University.  Child prodigies.  Traits needed for math career.  Teaching math.  Comments on elementary math teacher.   

00:22:06  	On choosing problems to work on.  Her husband's (also a mathematician) approach.   

00:25:50  	States her problem.  

00:30:00  	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2     

00:30:39  	Language of math.   

00:33:33  	She doesn't use numbers.  Uses words and pictures.   

00:34:47  	How she works--on sofa at home.  Has four children.  Good person to care for them.   

00:36:28  	Works every day.   

00:39:11  	Harder to work if discouraged.   

00:39:59  	Women find it harder to deal with discouragement.   

00:41:29  	Mathematicians have to learn when to quit working on a problem.   

00:42:36  	Why women have had trouble as professionals in mathematics.  

00:46:52  	Importance of talking with colleagues.   

00:48:31  	Graduate students also helpful.   

00:49:30  	Teaching undergraduates you're doing something for people, "earns you the right then to do the thing that gives you super joy--mathematics."   

00:51:15  	More on need to talk with other mathematicians.  
		
00:53:23  	Writing and lecturing.

00:55:34  	Marriage to a mathematician.

00:58:30  	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1    

00:00:18  	Preston C. Hammer, talk of him; excitement over "empty set"; why he started computer science department here; interests, family; way used his mind--strangeness about him, when left-- where went; his ideas of everyone else; American Mathematical Society.  

00:11:27  	What Stephen C. Kleene said about Hammer.  

00:12:00  	What Stephen M. Robinson said, background on him. 

00:12:30  	MR's "reactions" continued; Penn State program; Numerical Analysis Laboratory.  

00:14:00  	Back to Steve Robinson; development of Computer Science departments.  

00:15:36  	Kleene--why interested in computing.  

00:16:27  	Who is now interested in computing and why; problems with using computers, effects on math department caused by these problems.  

00:20:27  	Math Research Center has access to computers.  

00:21:35  	K. Jon Barwise, Ken Kunen.  Logicians lost and gained--what did at new places because of computer time, what asked for when came back.  

00:22:30  	People crossing line between computer science and math-- Seymour V. Parter; acceptance of these people; recruiting problems in computer science department.    

00:25:02  	Offer Hammer might have received, other reasons left Wisconsin.

00:27:36  	MRC beginnings.  Rudolf E. Langer and Kleene's interests in it.  

00:28:50  	Kleene responsible for J. Barkley Rosser's coming; Rosser's former work.  

00:29:50  	Math department in early 1970's and its embarrassment over MRC, why this was so.    

00:31:15  	End of side.  
Tape 2/Side 2    

00:31:19  	MRC being put down more than needed to be, more about reasons why.  

00:32:35  	Votes about opinion of MRC.  MR's feelings, controversy between faculty and grad students in Math; militancy among this student group.  

00:35:06  	TAA strike--reactions among Math faculty; reactions about TAA in general, why, benefits to department.  

00:36:53  	Faculty Unions-- feelings among Math faculty.   

00:37:53  	About Langer and Rosser--kind of people they were.  

00:38:46  	Seymour Parter.  

00:39:10  	Rosser, feelings/involvement in military; how this affected Kleene on his hiring.

00:40:36  	Langer; MR didn't really know very well; how he won his prestige.  

00:42:00  	Parter still very much a part of the math department.  

00:42:52  	Department chairman took much flack--their reaction to this; Parter in particular.  

00:44:20  	Kleene coming to Madison; background; personality, some of his life--trouble with housing, salary; was involved in building of University Housing; his feelings re UW.  

00:46:53  	Kleene was in charge of the building of Van Vleck; his care in this project; the slate blackboards there.                     

00:49:14  	Other things took much care in: computer science department, MRC, the college in general.  

00:49:48    	Kleene as chairman of math department, department's reaction to things he did; how department viewed him; his lack of power and why this was--includes list of powers of chairman.    

00:56:31  	Controversy between Langer and Kleene, their views on chairmanship, each other.  

00:57:24  	MR's reactions on Kleene's Deanship, her opinion of this choice by H. Edwin Young, how Young benefitted.              

00:58:30  	Kleene as Dean--his rigidity in dealing with departments; the extra power this gave him.   

00:59:56  	About his getting rid of two administrators.   

01:00:12  	His view on math department, how to compromise with these views; more on how his power as Dean was used.    

01:02:01  	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 3/Side 1     

00:00:10  	MR's appointment for tenure--had been a lecturer; woman's movement helped in the promotion, MR's feelings on the move to professorship--the responsibilities, things she had to give up with the title; Walter Rudin (husband) is the one who convinced her to take it.  How he did this.                 

00:05:26  	Wolfgang Wasow may have been one to initiate move to make MR a professor.  

00:05:36  	Involvement/opinion on women's movement; did work with retarded.  

00:07:06  	How math department is divided.

00:07:50  	R.H. Bing and Joe Martin left, but not replaced--how affects topologists; how this reflects on the "group".  

00:09:02  	List of top areas in department.  

00:09:51  	End of side.  End of tape. 

END