UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #578
BROWN, MARION F.

BROWN, Marion F. (1947- )
Assistant Professor of Textiles and Clothing; Vice President of University of Wisconsin Foundation
At UW: 1973- 

FIRST INTERVIEW

Interviewed:	2002 (2 sessions)	
Interviewer: 	Barry Teicher
Length: 	2 hours, 15 minutes
Index by:	Barry Teicher

Abstract: In her two 2002 interviews with Barry Teicher, Marion Brown explains the path that led her to the University of Wisconsin-Madison and eventually into a central role in the Chancellors Scholarship Program. She details the development of the program, largely at the prompting of Mercile Lee, and in the process discusses a number of major figures in UW campus life.  This interview was conducted for inclusion in the University of Wisconsin-Madison Archives Oral History Project.

Key Words: Background; Undergraduate work at UCLA; UW-Madison School of Family Resources and Consumer Sciences (currently Human Ecology); Chancellor’s Scholarship Program (CSP); Martha Taylor; Mercile Lee; Need- versus merit-based scholarships; Irving Shain and Bryant Kearl; Promoting CSP; First year of CSP; Role of UW Foundation; Need for new staff; Future of CSP.

SECOND INTERVIEW

Interviewed: 	2014	
Interviewer: 	Peyton Smith
Length: 	48 minutes
Index by:	Matthew Jackson

Abstract: In her 2014 follow-up interview with Peyton Smith, Marion Brown relates changes and continuities in the Chancellors Scholars Program from 2002 to 2014. She emphasizes the need to continue the energy of founder Mercile Lee, and explains some of the successes and challenges of the programs last decade.  This interview was conducted for inclusion in the University of Wisconsin-Madison Archives Oral History Project

Key Words: Chancellors Scholars Program; fundraising; minority issues; UW Foundation; S.T.E.M (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) areas; UW Foundation; Mercile Lee; Chancellor Rebecca Blank.

FIRST INTERVIEW

First Interview Session (March 22, 2002): Digital File (Tapes 1-2)

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	[begin Tape 1/Side 1] Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:33	Question: Talk about your background. Answer: Marion Brown talked about her childhood and education in Los Angeles, CA. She mentioned an interest and skill in art at a young age, influenced by her parents’ artistic ability.

00:02:22	[no question] She discussed her family’s community life, considered a center of their neighborhood, and their involvement in church and school activities. 

00:03:35	[no question] She explained that her father was a glazer who started his own business and was one of LA’s first black glazers. She discusses her parents’ education.

00:05:42	Question: Your artistic ability? Answer: MB’s artistic ability came, she thought, from her grandmother, mother and father. Her grandmother and mother sewed, and her grandmother also quilted. 

00:06:39	[no question] MB described her parents’ expectation that she go to college. She mentioned volunteer work that her parents were involved in. She recalled thinking about career possibilities, which from a very early age included teaching.
 
00:10:48	Question: Why UCLA? Answer: She talked about choosing UCLA and obtaining undergraduate and graduate degrees in art and an education degree. She talked about a design professor who suggested a career in academia and encouraged her to go to UW.

00:14:18	Question: You’d done social work for a year? Answer: Before coming to UW, MB explained that she worked as a substitute teacher and a social worker.  She said that these jobs helped her learn about people in Los Angeles.   

00:17:30	Question: Coming to UW? Answer: MB discussed applying and interviewing for a position in the School of Family Resources and Consumer Sciences [currently Human Ecology], in which she was given the job of teaching a design class. She reflected on her feelings coming to the Midwest from Los Angeles, which she observed is weirdly parochial. She described new courses and programs she created 

00:20:00	Question: Changes in the school? Answer: She explained that these changes and turmoil in SoHE were a result of the breakaway from CALS and the desire to be inter- disciplinary, and reflected on the advantages and disadvantages of the predominance of women in the School.

00:23:04	Question: The UW Foundation? Answer: After ten years of teaching design, when it became doubtful she’d get tenure based on her research program, MB began to work with the Chancellor's Scholarship Program. She talks about Tom Shick and the fun she actually had interviewing for the position with the program.  
	
00:27:06	Question: The position? Answer: She responded that the person who got the position would raise funds for merit-based scholarships and would be housed 50/50 in the Foundation and the Vice Chancellor’s Office. She came away from the interview interested in the position.  

00:29:31	[no question] MB discussed Martha Taylor and her role as the representative of the UW Foundation in the program. Taylor was interested in raising funds for particular schools and colleges rather than for the university as a whole, a ground-breaking concept at the time. [end side 1; begin Side 2] Martha was a natural person to look at the program, believed in it, and had a good relationship with Kearl and Shain.

00:32:35	Question: Talk about the Foundation. Answer: MB described the UW Foundation when she when she became involved with the program. She mentioned the manage- ment team—Rennebohm, Peterson, Phelps and others—and her role as a new member at the very start of this switch to school and department-based fundraising.

00:34:41	Question: What was it like to be the first African-American hired by the Foundation? Answer: She said that she did not face racial barriers within the Foundation, partly due to the work of Martha Peterson, the real challenges were appealing to donors outside of the Foundation. But it was also a time when they were still feeling their way through everything they were doing.

00:37:36	Question: Was there an informal network that you worked with? Answer: She discussed black faculty on campus who would get together, but she said that “you just did what you had to do.” She credited certain people with being very gracious.

00:40:41	Question: Early months with Mercile Lee? Answer: With no program to speak of yet, MB mentioned work she did with Mercile Lee to formalize the elements of the program and their professional and social relationship. 

00:42:37	Follow up: Lee’s role in meetings? Answer: Responding that Lee was “vocal,” she talke about Lee’s role in the program and her strong opinions on how the program should function. Most of the people at meetings were on board with her views, but she mentioned Wally Douma and his focus on need-based scholarships.

00:46:41	[no question] Observing that people weren’t very confident that Chancellor’s Scholarships would work, she said that she was hired as part of an experiment. But when it became clear that enough money was being raised to support the program, and her position at the Foundation became full-time.

00:48:56	Question: How did you identify donors? Answer: She discussed how the committee identified what kinds of students the program wanted to attract and possible donors who would support such students, a major component of which was a minority alumni list who were very supportive even if they couldn’t make major gifts.

00:51:42	Follow up: Faculty support? Answer: The program brought in a lot of support from alumni and faculty members, MB recalled. She talked about faculty members and alumni would made contributions, and mentioned Irving Shain and Bryant Kearl’s personal involvement in the fund-raising project.

00:54:30	Question: Wisconsin Alumni Association and the Foundation? Answer: She explained that they didn’t really have a relationship before the project started, but over time also became very interested in minority issues.

00:56:09	[no question] While, she recalled, they thought it would take several years to put the program together, by the end of the first year, the program was ready to sponsor six students. She talked about how they worked to get students to apply.  

01:00:10	Question: Were you always certain it would work? Answer: While she always strongly felt the program would work, because of the innate optimism of development, they knew it would take time.

01:01:40	[end Tape 1/begin Tape 2] Question: How did you get guidance counselors in Midwest HSs on board? Answer: MB talked about advertising the program and the membership of the selection committee.  She mentioned the qualities the selection committee looked for in students, and talked about how exciting it was to inform the students who were chosen and then to meet them.

01:05:36	Question: That first fall? Answer: Along with the excitement, she talked about how they tried to protect the students from excessive pressure and to create a sense of community among them. The accepted students met with MB and Lee throughout the school year in social situations that were aimed at building community.

01:08:41	Question: The mentor program? Answer: MB discussed the necessity of having mentors, the ease with which they’d gotten faculty and staff to get involved, and their part in the program. She explained how the program was evaluated to monitor its success. 

01:11:40	Question: Did these students understand they were special? Answer: She thought they understood to a certain extent that they were the first class in the program.

01:12:26	Question: The newsletter? Answer: MB talks about a newsletter, talks by faculty, and other programs that developed over time.

01:13:56	Question: Naming the scholarship? Answer: She reflected on the considerations that went into the initial name in the first year, and why it had changed over time.

01:15:51	Question: Why the jump in the 3rd year? Answer: She explained why in the third year, the number of students accepted into the program almost doubled--additional funding from UW, buy-in from the deans, and support from the chancellors.  

01:17:04	Question: What was the campus climate when the program started? Answer: MB described the feelings on the campus towards minority recruitment, noting that support for merit-based (rather than need-based) scholarships grew. She discussed how the program would not have succeeded without Mercile Lee.  

01:21:03	Question: You were hired on when? Answer: By the third year, MB was a full-time member of the Foundation. She mentioned that her involvement in program functions diminished as she spent more time working on fund-raising. She talked about Mercile Lee’s continued involvement in elements of the program and describes Pat Reidy, a new staff person working on the program.

01:27:04	End of First Interview Session   
    
Second Interview Session (June 12, 2002): Tape 3

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	[begin Tape 3/Side 1] Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:21	Question: Talk about the distinction between merit- and need-based scholarships. Answer: She said that the Chancellor’s Scholarship was the first merit-based scholarship for minority students at Wisconsin, recalling that one of Mercile Lee’s goals was to break down stereotypes by giving people on campus a chance to interact with talented minority students.

00:03:28	Question: How was this concept received? Answer: MB talked about how real challenge was convincing the administration that there was a need to pursue academically excellent students—they wouldn’t just come to UW.

00:05:38	Follow up: Other chancellors? Answer: She described the involvement of chancellors other than Irving Shain in the program. She mentioned the level of support given by Bernie Cohen, Donna Shalala, David Ward, and John Wiley, and Lee’s ability to “bring along” new provosts into understanding the program. She emphasized how each chancellor had added to the initiative in different ways.

00:16:28	Question: Current size of the program? Answer: MB mentioned there were currently about 100 to 130 students in the program.  

00:16:53	Question: Other individuals who contributed? Answer: She talked about private individuals and corporations who have donated to the fund, emphasizing how the program identified these groups and their reasons for contributing. Many WI companies were concerned about diversifying their own skilled workforce. She observed that there were about 10-12 endowed scholarship funds.

00:23:02	Question: Are Scholars sought after? Answer: She responded that some graduating scholars are specifically sought by employers, although there is no internship component to the program.

00:25:57	Question: Talk about staff who work on the program and what they do? Answer: MB said that the Foundation has worked hard to make sure all development officers were aware of the program, and detailed specific staff members’ roles.

00:30:23	Follow up: At what point does the program’s growth become unmanageable? [end side 1/ begin side 2] Answer: She talked about the need for new staff because of the program’s growth.  She thought that the transition to a larger staff would be difficult because Mercile Lee and the other staff want the program to remain very personal.

00:37:08	Question: How firmly established is the program? Answer: She said that the program is now firmly rooted on campus. She talked about the potential for change in the future, but always within a framework that clearly identifies and maintains the qualities that make it the Chancellor’s Scholarship.

00:40:53	Question: What happens when Mercile Lee leaves? Answer: MB speculated that Lee would be key to the change and observed the difficult job the next director will face.

00:46:09	[no question] She talks about a biography of John and Abigail Adams that she is reading.  She notes the parallel between the Chancellor’s Scholarship Program and the constitution, which allows for a degree of change while some fundamental principles remain unchanged.

00:47:51	End of First Interview Session 

End of Second Interview

End of Oral History #578

SECOND INTERVIEW
First Interview Session (February 19, 2014): Digital File 
Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:01:16	Question: Endowment goals? Answer: MB discussed the growth of the Chancellors Scholarship since she was last interviewed. She talks about getting endowments and raising funds for the program. She discusses how they are trying to find donors both individuals and groups who can give money annually. She talks about a telemarketing campaign to raise funds. Moving toward more individual donors for maintaining the program they are focusing on former alumni of color to raise money.

00:05:09	Question: Annual scholarships? Answer: MB correlates the recent growth of the program with the gifts of an alumnus from Milwaukee now living on the East Coast who was encouraged to donate by the program’s effectiveness and graduation rate. A particular area of interest to the investor was to increase recruitment of nonresidents to the diversity programs on campus. The program now has a similar ratio of in-state to out of state students to the university’s student body. In order to increase the size of the program the alum decided to give more money towards staff so that they can increase the programs size by five students every year for the next five years.

00:08:35	Question: Relationship between minority alumni and raising funds for the program? Answer: Brown observed that many of the donations of $100,000 or more have been from alumni of color.

00:09:27	Question: Is it a challenge to attract excellent minority candidates? Answer: She said that they’d had to work to get the word out, networking with HSs for many years and rebuilding these relationships in order to bring back up the number of applicants.

00:11:07	Question: Has the CSP changed fundraising since you came? Answer: MB discussed having a better track-record of receiving gifts from alumni for merit-based scholar- ships, and how the scholarship programs effected the foundation’s views of diversity on campus. She also talks about the creation of need-based scholarships at the school. She explains the continuing need to raise money for both need-based and merit scholarships through private support.

00:15:25	Question: Changes in minority staff? Answer: MB talks about the growth of the foundation staff since the 1980s and increase and then decrease of minority staff members. She then discusses the pressures of being seen as a “spokesperson” for people of color. She discusses how bringing diversity to the group, helps viewing the same issue from multiple perspectives. 

00:19:03	Question: Has having energetic intelligent minority students to campus changed views of minority students on campus? Answer: She thought faculty involvement in mentoring students really helped increase the students’ involvement on campus. Companies however want to see more students of color graduate campus wide before they invest more money into these programs. They were also helping the colleges, like engineering, increase the graduation of minorities in this field.

00:25:10	Question: How has Mercile Lee cemented her place in this program? Answer: She reviewed how Lee’s vision, tenacity and networking skills were pivotal for the program, but noted that “moving beyond Mercile” would be a critical time for the program, since many founding directors are charismatic.

00:30:38	Question: The timing and naming of the scholarship was crucial. Answer: MB talked about how scholarship programs have been embraced by the Chancellors due to the high graduation rates and its strong retention rates. It also helped that the school sees the need for diversity on this campus. She also talked about how Lee worked around students’ schedules so she could be available for them and had very good relationships with the chancellors and the provost. 

00:35:46	[no question] MB continued to discuss how the Foundation is increasingly concerned with growing diversity. She also talked about how programs like CSP are always being compared to one other even though they may have different goals.

00:37:16	Question: How has the new chancellor dealt with the scholarship programs? Answer: While she had spoken to students and have several interactions with scholars, MB felt that her focus was on need-based scholarships. She also emphasized the need to focus on improving Milwaukee’s school system, especially regarding minority students graduation rates. In this sense, she felt CSP was an ideal pipeline for minorities interested in the S.T.E.M. areas.

00:40:06	Question: What were the biggest obstacles and surprises? Answer: She said that the leadership of the Foundation was fully supportive to seek diversity on campus.

00:42:19	Question: Any questions I didn’t ask? Answer: MB discussed increases in donations from alumni of color and alumni communities across the nation. She also talks about young alumni giving small donations now which will hopefully increase over time.

00:45:50	Smith and Brown talked about the increasing challenge of public universities to raise money when education was often expected rather than seen as an agent of change.

00:48:06	End of First Interview Session

End of Second Interview

End of Oral History #578