UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #1044
BLACK, DAVID S.

BLACK, David S.
General Manager WSUM 91.7 FM 1995-2000; 2001-present
Lecturer/Instructor at UW: 1995-2004
Teaching Assistant at UW: 1991-1995

Interviewed: August 2 and 4, 2009	
Interviewer: Tara Genske
Length: 4.3 hours
Childhood; family dynamics; Free Methodist Church; growing up in Athens, Ohio; janitorial job at children’s hospital; medical records clerk in U.S. Army; stationed in Mannheim, Germany; recreational habits; alcoholism; anger; moved to Portland, Oregon; work at radio stations KXL-AM, KTDO-AM/KCEL-FM, KSRO-AM, marriages to Moira and Kari and subsequent relationships with their families; coping with sobriety, deaths, and self-esteem; studying speech communication (Portland State University), radio/television (San Francisco State), and Journalism & Mass Communication (UW-Madison); teaching/lecturing/instructing; history of WSUM 91.7 FM; WLHA; proposal for student radio station; WSA, ASM, UW Athletic Department;  battle over the tower in Montrose; finding a home for the radio station; getting an FCC license and University support; being the “face” for The Project; help from University, Board of Regents, Chancellor’s Office, ASM, UW System, Jim Hoyt, Pat Takomoto, Earl Sandy, DoIT, John Straub, Jim Weitzman, Terry O’Loughlin; working for Doris Hanson; finishing the project; living a principled life.

First Interview:  August 2, 2009
Introduction to interview and narrator by Tara Genske
		TG: Would you mind telling me a little bit about where you were born, 			your family and how you grew up?
0:01:05	DB: Born in Bloomington, IN.  Lived in Ellettsville, IN. Youngest of three 		children.  Father was a student at University of Chicago School of 				Divinity.  Mother was a small town girl.  Moved to south side tenement in 			Chicago.
0:04:27	Dad ordained at Rockefeller Chapel in Chicago, IL.  Got job in southern 			Ohio.  Information about Athens, OH and growing up there.  Elementary 			school run by Ohio University:  students monitored, observed, and 				recorded.  
0:05:47	Summer school was fun; learned about a topic or place and took field trip 			there.  Memorable destinations include Williamsburg, VA; Niagara Falls; 			locks on Lake Eerie; Greenfield Village, MI; Tiger Stadium.
0:07:35	Realized he was being educated in a “classic” situation (according to 			Foucault) where K-6 was about education and learning and 7-12 was 			about order and discipline.  Athens school being consolidated created 			mixed feelings in the community.  Miserable experience for DB.  Reading 			saved him.  Graduated from high school with 1.6 GPA.
		TG:  Are there any specific books or authors that…stand out or you felt 			influenced you?
0:09:45	DB: Sixth grade teacher, Miss Maggie Hoy, was big influence; read The 			Yearling every year. He loved the book catalogs for students to buy books 			from:  colorful, shiny, and illustrated.  Some favorite books include The 			Phantom Tollbooth, Henry Huggins (series), Chip Hilton’s Sports Heroes 			stories, books written by Clair Bee, The Ugly Duckling.
0:13:20	Close relationship with older brother.  Creative games that were 				competitively fair and fun.  Setting up hockey game box with NBC logo to 		“re-create” the 1964 presidential election a la Huntley and Brinkley.
0:14:32	Lived in attic with brother in house behind church where dad preached on 			college campus.  Not many other kids around.  Description of house.
0:15:08	Mom’s struggle being a housewife and her mental and social health issues.
		TG:  Do you happen to know how your parents met?
0:16:10	DB: They met at Greenville College in Greenville, IL.  Mom’s family 			information: siblings, parents, deaths.  Free Methodist family:  church and 			college campus.
0:18:20	Fall of 1937 on campus.  Mom and her brother both on campus.  Dad 			played basketball and coached freshman girls’ basketball.  Freshman 			bound to meet each other.  Mom’s brother, Bill, married woman named 			Francie.  Were married for 60 years.  Bill committed suicide.  Eventually, 			after Mom died, Dad married Francie.  Still married.  
		TG:  What did you choose to do after high school?
0:24:32	DB:  Hung out with a “Pied Piper” fellow who eventually ended up in 			prison.  Moved in with parents, who were then located in Cincinnati, OH.  			Dad was half time at Episcopal Diocese of Southern Ohio and half time at 			Church of Our Saviour in Cincinnati.  Mom was working at Children’s 			Hospital Credit Union-got Dave a janitorial job.  Drank, smoked dope, not 		always reliable employee.
0:25:45	Spent time typing bad poetry and hanging out at bars.  As he was 				approaching 20, realized life was going nowhere.  Joined the Army in 			1975 on delayed entry.  Lived in Athens, OH before service started 			partying and running (in preparation for Basic Training).
0:27:16	Being a medic was going to be specialty.  Wanted infantry.  Recruiter 			suggested voice broadcasting.  Interested in respiratory therapy.  Went 			through medical training at Fort Sam Houston, TX.  Everyone was 				smoking and drinking.  Some guys shipped to Korea.  Most shipped to 			Germany [including him].  Assigned to combat unit as medic.
0:28:55	Became medical records clerk and ran dispensary.  Lots of high school 			dropouts in military-concerns about tank and skills required for running 			the equipment.  They were cannon fodder.  Supposed to hold the Rhine 			River and keep the Soviets back.  Mid-70s army:  everybody was stoned 			or drunk.  Commander turned blind eye.  Story about drug-sniffing dog 			[boisterous laughter].
		TG:  Sounds like you didn’t see any combat then?...Did you hold back any 		Russians?
0:34:38	DB:  Recollections and impersonation of General and impression upon 			troops.  Training and muster alerts.  American troops gunned down by 			North Koreans in DMZ.  
0:37:17	Trying to have fun in Germany:  played fast-pitch softball, full contact 			flag football and hockey.  Rare to have contact with non-military people.
		TG:  How long was your service?
0:38:41	DB:  Three years.  Basic Training at Fort Knox in 1975.  Discharged at 			Fort Dix in 1978
		TG:  How much time did you spend in Germany (or abroad)?
0:39:11	DB: Landed in Germany in January 1976.  Came home on leave in 				December 1977 (grandfather had died).  Finished hitch in Germany in 			August 1978.  Got in trouble drinking that first summer.  Hungover for 			flight home.  Ate hash before flight.  Pope Paul died, Harvey Milk & 			George Moscone deaths, and Jonestown had all just happened.  They had 			been deprived of pop culture and non-military news.
		TG:  How did you () adjust?
0:42:18	DB: Was going to go back to college.  Quarters system [versus semesters].  		Enrolled at University of Cincinnati; they suggested University College 			(“remedial high school”).  He did well there.  Before school started he 			went to Riverfront Stadium a lot to watch Reds, drink, and smoke.
0:45:36	Had some depressive episodes.  Wandered through college.  Decided to 			change geography.  Hopped on bus and moved out to Oregon.  Stayed 			with army buddies.  Established residency.  Attended Portland State 			University.  Finished college.  Had first serious relationship with 				somebody.  Married her.
		TG:  What was the time frame?
0:47:04	DB:  Moved to Portland in March 1980, two months before Mount St. 			Helens blew up.  Experience of eruption:  thought it was an earthquake, 			“the day turned to night”, subsequent course of events.
		TG:  So, you finished your undergrad at Portland State University?
0:49:01	DB:  Finished in 1984.  Took him a long time to decide major.  Started out 		in nursing school at University of Cincinnati (negative experience).  			Program’s bias against straight white men.
		TG:  So what type of men did they prefer?
0:50:11	DB:  Gay men were ok.  But nursing didn’t want straight white men 			because they tend to elevate within the system quicker (higher ranks in 			administration).  Studied topics that interested him at the university.  Had 			GI Bill and stipend with work study and civil service position.  Started 			radio internship in fall of 1981.  Making money and working a lot.
		TG:  Were there any other fields of study that you had considered prior to 			radio?
0:52:11	DB:  Majored in speech communication.  Got into radio through Ben 			Padrow.  Interested in sports broadcasting.  Trying to get work with sports 			director for credit.  The system used at that time was an audio tape system:  		challenges and struggles with it.  Thought radio was going to be different 			i.e. not run by narcissistic, “non-team” people.  He wanted to be part of a 			team.
0:56:07	Taking 12 credits a quarter.  Got degree in speech communication.  First 			public speaking class.  Took a lot of philosophy and anthropology classes-			cultural relativism-the medium is the message-language and thought.  			Took classes until GI Bill ran out.  Needed to get a real job.  Difficulties 			trying to deal with [then] father-in-law.
0:58:40	Wife had grown up in Ireland; parents are American.  Her father decided 			to move the family during civil rights strife in America. Moira’s family 			dynamics.
1:01:37	Bonded with Moira through mutual anger.  Met in acting class.  Did 			improv scene using a line from Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolf? First 			impressions.  Moira’s intelligence, personal traits, and dysfunctional 			family.
1:05:15	Impressions of physical self.  Moving in together with Moira.  Her father’s 		disapproval.  Dynamics with each set of parents.  Fall out of separation.  			Fights with Moira and in comparison to a wife with current wife (Kari).  			Realization that he doesn’t want to give in to negative emotions and states 			of being resentful.
1:11:40	12-Step program in San Francisco. Had turned 30 and was done battling 			alcohol.
		TG:  How did you get to San Francisco from Portland?  What led you 			there?
1:12:36	DB:  Finished college.  Came to dislike sports reporting.  Wanted to do 			play-by-play.  Needed to find real radio job.  Worked at AM/FM 				KTDO/KCEL in Toledo, OR.  
1:15:05	Baby boomer phenomenonwhat (primarily) white men are taught to 			believe and influences from pop culture.
1:17:09	Travel for station and other work experiences including a play-by-				play of a small town parade.  FM station had become fully automated.  His 		work activities and attempt at DJ patter.  Newport, OR was a tourist 			community with fishing and timber aspects of life.  People couldn’t 			understand why anyone would want to go to college/be educated.
1:22:50	Doing real radio, though low-budget and old school, covering the county 			fair.  Trying to interview Smokey the Bear.  Issue with selling news time 			(to earn more money) and not wanting to join the Jaycees.
1:26:58	Made plans to leave station.  Decided to join the Air Force and “do a quick 		17 years and retire” so that he could do radio.  Military’s issues with 			smoking marijuana (and how it had changed).  His paper trail after officer 			training prevented that plan.  [Ex-] Father-In-Law’s reaction.  Lesson 			learned:  No matter what, just be honest.
1:30:31	Comparing his insides to other people’s outsides.  Learning that everyone 			has character flaws.  Doing not good things out of fear.  Importance of 			humility and structure (AA and 12 Steps).
1:33:55	Starting over in San Francisco.  Worked at car rental agency.  Wanted to 			go back to college to get graduate degree.  Pulled selves out of debt.  Read 		news article about the “oldest station in the Redwood Empire” switching 			to talk format.  Got weekend job at station (Saturday and Sunday 4 a.m.-			12 Noon) as an editor.  Wanted to be back in radio; it was worse than he 			thought.  Wayne Smith and the type of people radio attracts.
1:41:27	In 1987, went to KSRO in Santa Rosa, CA.  Quit when the station was 			being sold.  Had nervous breakdown.  Got useful advice while in hospital 			from counselor.  Went to Santa Rosa Junior College.  “Was done with 			radio”.  Became aware of television production and deconstruction of it.  			Went to San Francisco State.  Learned Theory of Applied Aesthetics.  			TAships were created for him (media performance, TV broadcast 				interviews).  Wrote thesis about TV news programs.
1:45:22	Looking for Ph.D. program somewhere else.  Explored coast schools with 			parents.  Applied to University of Washington, University of Oregon, 			University of Wisconsin-Madison and Michigan State (East Lansing).  			UW-Madison pursued him aggressively; first to call.  Chose Madison 			because of its politics and people with whom he wanted to work, including 		Esther Thorson.
End of First Interview (1:48:39)
Second Interview :  August 4, 2009 (Part 1)
Brief Introduction by Tara Genske
		TG:  What was the journey that got you from San Francisco to here 				(Madison)?
0:00:35	DB:  Mother was diagnosed with renal cell cancer and father had reached  			mandatory retirement age.  He had planned a worldwide tour in 1992 but 			her health was too poor.  Parents’ reactions to diagnosis.  Him moving 			closer [in proximity] to his parents (who were in Cincinnati, OH) was a 			good thing; resolving the past.
0:05:05	Narrator had to leave room briefly; recording device left on
0:06:00	DB:  Wanted to start living a proactive life.  Recognized the things that 			couldn’t be controlled.  [cough near recorder at 06:39]
0:07:32	He and Moira drove to Madison in three days.  Found place on 				Hammersley Road.  Marriage was disintegrating.  He was tired of being 			angry.
0:11:12	His dad was trying to take care of mom but he was in denial.  Dad planned 		a lot of trips, pretending like nothing was wrong.  [Dave] was with his 			mom 7 of the last 9 weeks she was alive trying to take care of her and 			coordinate family visits.  Huge transition.
0:13:20	Despite negativity in life, he loved teaching radio news for Journalism 			School.  Technology was changing, some professors were indifferent 			(unlike at San Francisco State), and it was a huge adjustment moving from 		the hugely multi-cultural city of San Francisco to Madison.  He didn’t 			really know Madison well (or Wisconsin for that matter) outside of the 			near west side and campus until he met his second wife.  Stayed married 			to first wife on paper so that she could have his health care if she needed 			it.
0:16:16	Started bizarre “Odyssey of Dating”.  First with the Isthmus personals and 			its cast of characters.  First date with aluminum-can-recycling-and-candy-			loving woman at Olive Garden and the movies (saw “The Mask”).
0:22:22	Signed up for a subscription to The People Store.  Credit card requirement 			thinned out the potential daters (in a good way).  Based on voicemail 			greetings and messages-interest signals.  Interested in one woman who had 		kids.  Trying to schedule the communication with her and making contact.
0:26:46	Time frame is 1994.  Mom had died in July of 1993.  He had moved his 			wife out in August of 1993.  Had no idea how to be around kids.  Had 			always wanted kids (ex-wife did not) but was concerned about his 				family’s medical history.
0:28:10	He and his future wife (Kari) knew a lot of the same people but had never 			before met.  Had first date at Bahn Thai on Willy Street January 25, 1995.  		He had grown up in Sheboygan, WI-cop family-she was the oldest 				of 5-“assistant mom”.  Her kids were 7 and 9.  Totally different existence 			for him.
0:29:59	Kari had broken her leg before their third date.  When he went to visit her 			in hospital, met her parents in waiting room.  They liked him immediately 			because he was educated and knew how to take care of people post-			surgery.  Alternate universe feeling.
0:33:00	Learning how to be a parent.  Communicating with and teaching children.  		Developing relationships with her kids.  Rites of passage with son and 			connecting with daughter.
		TG:  What was your parrot’s name?
0:35:05	DB:  Snoopy, the Quaker Parrot.  Facts about Quaker Parrots and their 			personality traits.  Difference between dogs and parrots; quirkiness.
		TG:  You had experience caring for terminally ill people; worked at a 			children’s hospital and the VA hospital.  Would you mind explaining that?
0:38:42	DB:  Was a janitor in the children’s hospital.  Rose to position setting up 			rooms for patients with specific needs.  Nursing school practicum was 			taking care of someone with Pick’s Syndrome.  Had a feel for people who 			were ill; sensitivity/being attuned to other people’s needs.
0:40:23	Worked at VA hospital as nurse’s assistant (job that established his 			residency in Oregon).  Was sharing a house with army buddy and his 			brother.  Worked with patients who had heart problems or dementia.  			Seeing people dying-help ushering them out.  Had common book of 			prayers; would say last rites for people.
		TG:  Was that in Portland?
0:42:10	DB:  The VA hospital was in Portland-he needed a job.  Kept that one for 			a while in college.  Also had work-study job and the radio thing.  Amassed 		a lot of credits.  Why some people go to college for specific purposes.  He 			wanted to know as much as he could about as many things as he could.  			Missed out on learning in high school.  Followed his interests.  Needed 			180 credit to graduate.  Guesstimates had at least 220.
		TG:  As a TA at Madison, did you have a choice or was there a specific 			venue you wanted?
0:44:47	DB:  Came (here) to study with Doug Maynard in sociology, John Fiske in 		Communication Arts, Esther Thorson in journalism and maybe Robert 			Hawkins in journalism.  Told to study with Lew Friedland because he had 			been a television producer.  Dave’s focus was using presidential debates as 		a method relating to TV News interviews.  Confrontational disagreement 			to moderate affirmation.  Examples.
0:46:52	First study done at Madison was on music videos.  Up and coming 				graduate student, John Tapper, on fast track to get a Ph. D. knew how to 		set up a study.
0:47:40	Narrator had to take a phone call.  Recording ended. 
Second Interview:  August 4, 2009 (Part 2)
Refresh previous conversation topic.
0:00:13	DB:  Music videos as a way to tell stories; television as medium-socially 			relevant, story telling music videos.  Working with Esther Thorson; she 			got funding for study.  Details about the study:  content analysis, variables, 		coding. 
0:05:30	He got his best paper out of the study-videos alienating suburban white 			males-common themes (slow motion, flying, etc).  Presented to a panel.
0:07:40	Meeting/reacting to well-known people in the field.  Being decisive and 			confrontational with people in the position to influence others.  Celebrities 		calculatingly adopting causes e.g. AIDS
0:12:00	Panelists at presentation:  Gill Scott Heron, Queen Latifah, Clarence 			“Gatemouth” Brown and race relations [laughter]
0:13:30	Beginning a new chapter in life (1993-1994).  Met soon-to-be wife.  			Discovered Wisconsin-its politics and nice people.
0:15:50	Wanting to propose to Kari.  Had to divorce (first) wife-her reaction.  New 		Year’s Eve (1995) proposal.  Long engagement.
0:17:12	Relationship with Danny and Stephanie (Kari’s kids).  Working with Kari 			in their family-dynamics, efforts, experience, frustration.
0:19:51 	Was TA in Radio News.  Started out as junior TA.  Had lots of teaching 			experience.  Immediately became senior TA.  Successful at it.
0:21:22	Radio News did their lab on WLHA.  Called in news over phone line.  The 		students there were dismissive of their lab and sometimes didn’t air their 			news.  Wanted “more professional” news.  Confrontation with station 			manager.
0:23:56	Summit meeting with Professor Jim Hoyt.  Planned partnership between 			WLHA and Dave’s class but it fell through when WLHA shut down by 			FCC.  Then they needed help from Dave and Jim to get them officially on 			the air.  WLHA people were not aware of what and how long it takes.  			Needed to build tower. [Microphone moved 26:08]
0:28:00 	WSA killed-$ held in escrow.  UW Athletic Department stopped taking 			seg fees (had Reebok deal).  Money already collected ($500k) could be 			used for a one-time project:  construction of tower proposed.  ASM agreed 		to fund if proof that students wanted radio station.  Got petition and 			referendum.  Knew of one available frequency in Madison and the specific 		location the tower needed to be built.
0:31:25	Went to 3 of the 4 landowners-needed one to hold a piece of land.  Needed 		Board of Regents to hold FCC license and UW backing—interactions with 		chancellors and deans.  Jim Hoyt opens doors and Dave does the 				footwork.
0:35:22	Had Madison on board.  Needed to learn how to start a radio station from 			scratch.  UW System thought Madison should have student radio; lobbied 			for them.
0:37:00	Pat Takomoto called Chancellor’s office.  Lamarr Billups assigned to help.
0:38:15	Facilities Planning and Management not being helpful in finding a space.  			Someone from the state assigned to help them.  Dave’s goal as general 			manager was to get the FCC license and put the tower up.
0:40:30	Earl Sandy showed (mostly unsuitable) buildings.  Last shown The 			Towers on State Street.  Adapted the space to be radio-quality.  Getting 			things completed was like pulling teeth.
0:43:12	Needed to present to the Town of Montrose-land use planning-public 			hearing with engineering data and students present.  People’s questions 			and reactions to their proposal.
0:46:18	The vote and Montrose’s propaganda against UW radio.  Upsetting times.  		UW attorneys consulted.  Dave got to know the people involved, did 			research, got more information and experts.
0:49:08	Students had become discouraged.  Choice was between cable or internet 			radio.  Got secondhand equipment; help from the Division of Information 			Technology (DoIT).  Accomplishments kept students engaged.
0:50:43	Radio that no one listens to only has two kinds of people who want to 			come in and participate:  “loner stoners” and people who like to talk about 			sports.  Often hostile with each other.  Needed a team environment.
0:51:47	Had gotten lucky finding a frequency, money, and a space.  Board of 			Regents agreed to hold license; planning for permanent facility in near 			future.  John Straub sorted out people, built shelves, coded CDs, helped 			with by-laws and establishing a mission statement.
0:54:18	Station’s mission as guide to shape who and how they were.  Dave’s 			development as a leader/being part of a cause he believed in:  providence.
0:56:33	Creating critical consumers makes better products; an audience that 			demands better.
0:57:45	UW students who were integral to the station and the university.  The first 			generation of students who never got on the air but wrote the by-laws and 			created vision and mission.  Dave’s job was to learn from these people and 		apply.
0:59:30	Jim Weitzman’s involvement-got new transmitter for tower after they had 			been having signal and frequency problems.  Antenna drama with 				manufacturing company.
1:03:46	Terry O’Loughlin from WORT wired studios and provided a clear and 			useful way to explain why the tower needed to be in Montrose.
1:06:55	[boisterous laughter]
1:07:22	Steven Dunifer’s Movement re: First Amendment Rights and transmitters.  		Bad press form Daily Cardinal hurt project.  Dave started to record 			conversations for posterity.
1:10:20	Irrational reactions from those opposed the Tower in Montrose.  Legal 			issues, litigation.  Turning situations that appear to be negative into 			something positive.  ASM’s involvement.
1:16:48	Order of events regarding appeals and necessary preparation all the way to 		the Supreme Court.
1:19:30	Took job with the state.  Had done K-12 outreach before.  In 2000, started 			working with TEACH Wisconsin (radio drama).  Ready to move on to 			somewhere else to get a faculty position.
1:21:27	Ten month position at TEACH.  Working with/for Doris Hanson. 				Quitting.
1:23:30	Station was floundering, He came back for 6-month appointment.
1:24:34	Experiences at TEACH offices (good and bad).  Comparison to UW’s 			work environment.  Mindset of state employees. [boisterous laughter]
1:29:56	Turning 46-couldn’t finish dissertation.  Needed to do the Project instead 			of trying to become faculty.  Good benefits.  Sees appreciation from 			students.
1:31:01	Humility; grateful for opportunity.  Preparing students beyond classroom.  			Dealing with life.  Being a white male teacher with younger female 			students.  Appreciate all students equally regardless of gender or ethnicity.
1:34:28	Social differences in society today.  Naïve assumptions.  Making a 				conscious effort to unlearn prejudices.  What’s really important.  				Reflections on self (while driving, in coffee shop).
1:38:39	Living a principled life.  Teaching and seeking loyal students.  What 			makes WSUM unique.  Coming into his own-arrested development and 			positive outlook knowing his core self vs. the lie.  Disempowering fear.
1:45:30	[loud laughter from narrator and interviewer]
Closing statements by Tara Genske.
End of second interview (2:33:54) 

INTERVIEWER’S NOTES

Pre-Interview took place on Wednesday, July 1st.  Lasted two hours.
First Interview took place in recording/soundproof space in WSUM studios.  Recorder too close to interviewer:  pencil writing can be heard.
Second Interview took place in Dave Black’s office in WSUM studios.  Recorder placed closer to narrator; moved at least once during interview.  Office had motion sensored lights that would turn off after about 15 minutes of no movement.  Narrator would then flail arms to trigger the lights (very funny).  Some sounds from computer in room.  
Personal note:  the interviewer found this oral history very enjoyable.  Developing rapport was practically effortless due to narrator’s easygoing manner and excitement to share candid stories, practical experiences, his life’s lessons and words of wisdom.  There are many more follow-up questions that should be pursued.
-TG