UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1228
LIEN, TSE-CHING (CHRISTINE)

LIEN, TSE-CHING (CHRISTINE) (1983-)
Graduate student, Department of Mathematics
At UW: 2005-

Interviewed: 	2012 (2 sessions)
Interviewer: 	Jason Murcko
Index by: 	Jason Murcko
Length: 	1 hour, 55 minutes

Abstract: In her 2012 interviews with Jason Murcko, Christine Lien describes her involvement in the 2011 Capitol Protests. She discusses her political involvement prior to 2011, her decision to become involved in the protests, the protest teach-out, and her organizing work within the Math Department. Other topics include the Capitol sleep-over and eventual lockout; the TAA Stewards’ Council; the recall election and the TAA’s decision not to endorse either candidate. This interview was conducted for inclusion into the UW-Madison Oral History Program.

First Interview Session (April 19, 2012): Digital File

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:39	Question: Why UW-Madison for graduate school? Answer: CL was deciding between UW-Madison and University of California at Davis. She intended to study topology/geometry. Davis was strong in that area, whereas several professors in that field were leaving UW-Madison. Ultimately, the city of Madison itself – and particularly its liberal character - appealed to her. 

00:02:47	Question: Political involvement prior to the protests? Answer: As an undergraduate, CL participated in an Asian-American mentoring program at Pomona College. The group was very political and increased CL's awareness of identity issues as a woman and an Asian American. Around the same time, CL began to follow California’s recall election of then Governor Gray Davis.  

00:06:07	Question: Did the Pomona mentoring program get involved with the California recall election? Answer: No. However, the program actively opposed a proposition to eliminate the ability to ask about race on government forms, ultimately aimed at halting affirmative action. Although a private college, Pomona actively recruited people of color, while excluding Asian-American students from that category. They comprised about 15% of each incoming class. The program pushed for the administration to consider diversity among the Asian-American student population itself. CL recalls speaking to Asian-American students who omitted their ethnicity on admission forms for fear of a cap on Asian-American students. 

00:09:28	Question: What other issues did the mentoring program address? Answer: CL became involved during her junior year, but studied abroad for half of that year. She was aware of racial incidents that occurred during her absence and remembers writing an off-campus perspective of those events for the group’s newsletter. 

00:13:46	Question: Involvement with the teach-out during the Capitol protests? Answer: CL describes the origins of the TAA’s decision to unofficially call for a teach-out. She was present at the TAA meeting where members discussed a teach-out to show solidarity for public school teachers who called in sick en masse. CL felt that a strike was imminent, but as a small union, the TAA relied on action in concert with larger groups. 

00:18:38	[No question.] CL only felt affected by the teach-out that Thursday (February 17). The teach-out began on Wednesday, but CL did not teach that day. CL communicated her stance to her students and asked for their cooperation. The teach-out afforded her students more time to study for their exam. They only complained when CL’s absence to attend her grandmother’s funeral failed to push the exam back further. 

00:21:03	[No question.] The teach-out added to her work, as she offered students three time slots to take their exam, rather than one. Seth Meyer, a TA in CL’s cohort sent an e-mail to all the TA’s describing his plans and eliciting feedback. Steffen Lempp, their supervisory professor, replied with his sympathy but also advising TA’s not to cancel class time outright. Each TA e-mailed Lempp with their plan for his approval. After this, Shi Jin (Chair of the Math Department) e-mailed the department suggesting that TAs shouldn't participate in the teach-out. CL discussed Jin’s e-mail with colleague Dave Seal. They agreed that a department-wide e-mail forum was not warranted. The success of a strike would depend on the support of individual departments, because department supervisors would ultimately report which TAs did not show up. 

00:25:31	[No question.] CL sent an e-mail to Shi Jin offering her understanding of his position. Steffen Lempp informed Jin that he was working the issue out with his TAs. The teach-out continued on Friday but with less participation. CL remembers a colleague who marched on the Capitol but administered an exam as scheduled.  CL held office hours off campus. She wanted to be as visible as possible near the Capitol. 

00:29:23	[No question.] After the teach-out, the TAA encouraged members to avoid campus. Before spring break, the TAA held a meeting to address the possibility of a strike. One member called for another teach-out. CL and friend Regina McConaghey thought it unfeasible due to its inconvenience for TAs themselves, especially those who taught daily classes. Members did not reach a decision about strike actions. 

00:32:26	Question: How did students respond to CL’s e-mails? Answer: Most responses were class-oriented. CL sensed that some students supported the protests.  CL framed her e-mails in a neutral way. Later, she received e-mails from students asking about information about events and actions relating to the protests. 

00:35:07	Question: Participation in the protests before the teach-out? Answer: CL had marched on the Capitol that Monday, February 14, in the “I <3 UW” protest. On Tuesday, she watched the Joint Finance Committee hearing online. The following day, she helped the TAA with miscellaneous tasks at the Capitol. Later that week, she participated in collecting names of people who promised to sign eventual recall petitions. She slept over at the Capitol on February 26, right before it was locked down. 

00:40:52	Question: Participation in TAA’s headquarters in Room 300NE of the Capitol?  Answer: CL spent time in 300NE but focused on organizing within the math department. CL and Dave Seal assembled a list of department members who were interested in the protests. They created an e-mail list to communicate about activity at the Capitol. TAs in the math department coordinated with each other to ensure that their participation in the protests would not interfere with teaching responsibilities. 

00:44:25	[No question.] CL and Seal tried to establish a way for colleagues to donate to the planned recall effort. They worked with Peter Rickman of the TAA toward this end, but ultimately nothing came of their efforts. CL mentions another similar effort, the Defend Wisconsin fund, established for non-political purposes such as upkeep of the Capitol. In 300 NE, the TAA accessed the internet outside of the Capitol network. 

00:48:25	Question: Dialogue with members of the math department? Answer: Few people responded to CL’s e-mails with comments and opinions; most asked informational questions. Many colleagues seemed implicitly in agreement about the budget bill. 

00:51:11	Question: Involvement with the TAA before the protests? Answer: CL was barely involved but had attended the TAA orientation party at the beginning of each school year. She first attended a general membership meeting during the protests. 

00:53:40	Question: How did CL decide to become active in the TAA once the protests started? Answer: CL did not approve of the way the TAA was run, but believe strongly in its necessity. She did not think the material provisions of the budget bill would affect her, however she objected to those provisions that limited the scope of collective bargaining. CL became involved when the union’s existence was threatened. 

00:56:45	Question: Anything to add?  Answer: CL describes the TAA’s refusal to endorse a candidate in the recall election. She attended the meeting at which members reached this decision. It was apparent that people could not reach a consensus on the most important issue to the recall election, beyond unseating Governor Scott Walker. 

01:00:04	End of First Interview Session

Second Interview Session (May 3, 2012): Digital File

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:28	Question: Experience sleeping over at the Capitol?  Answer: CL decided to camp out in the Capitol after it became clear that the protesters would soon be evicted. She describes her arrival at the Capitol, the appearance of the rotunda, and the mood of the messages posted outside the governor’s office. 

00:05:08	[No question.] CL left the Capitol early because it was difficulty sleeping there. She had worried about noise, but before midnight it lessened. She enjoyed reading the signs and posters, which reminded her of the eastern side of the Berlin Wall. 

00:07:41	Question: Company at the Capitol? Answer: CL went with her friend Matt Roake. She saw several people she knew. The goal was to stay as long as possible. 

00:08:43	Question: How did the Capitol lock-out affect CL’s participation in the protests? Answer: The protests felt decentralized. CL stayed near the Capitol and was online constantly. The Isthmus maintained a live Twitter feed that helped track activity at the Capitol. CL attended a TAA general membership meeting before spring break (March 12-20), but members could not decide how to continue the protests after the break. 

00:12:58	[No question.] After spring break, CL began attending TAA Stewards’ Council meetings. The general membership meeting before the break had lasted for hours. Many members had never attended a meeting and were unfamiliar with the TAA’s operation. The TAA co-presidents had explained what a strike would entail, but some members wanted to strike and prolonged the discussion. Members decided to form a strike committee. After that meeting, CL spoke with other graduate students in the math department (Dave Seal, George Brown, Tamvana Makuluni) and divided up the work of attending TAA meetings. Their efforts continued through the spring semester but dropped off the following fall. 

00:16:00	Question: Involvement with the Stewards' Council? Answer: Her colleague Dave Seal was involved and said she should get involved, too. She was hesitant at the time and still feels ambivalent about being a steward. 

00:18:41	Question: When did she become involved with the Stewards' Council? Answer: April. The Council did not meet during the protests. CL did not understand the purpose of the Council and did not thinking making posters and arm bands was an effective use of their time. Later that spring, she became involved with the TAA officer elections, which seemed to be a more valuable use of her time. 

00:22:34	Question: Details of coordination with math colleagues around TAA meetings? Answer: One person would attend each meeting on a rotation and e-mail a summary of that meeting to the others. After the end of the semester, this coordination fell off. 

00:24:56	Question: How did CL juggle responsibilities while the protests were going on?
	Answer: CL barely remembers much else from that time. Research and grading were put on hold. CL taught, but had taught the same class before and did not require as much preparation time as before. When her grandmother died in April, her focus shifted away from the protests toward other responsibilities. 

00:28:52	Question: Involvement beyond the Stewards' Council and TAA officer elections?  Answer: CL was not as involved as before. CL attended the protest of the budget bill’s passing. She recalls how the Capitol felt radically different to her. 

00:32:59	Question: Memories of TAA general membership meetings during or after the protests?  Answer: She describes her first general membership meeting held in 300NE, as well as another meeting before spring break. CL thought that second meeting was hampered by lack of understanding between grad students across disciplines. She felt that someone who suggested a prolongation of the teach-out did not understand its disruptiveness. 

00:37:14	[No question.] CL wished that the TAA officers and executives had provided greater leadership. Their democratic approach to decision-making seemed ill-suited to this particular situation, especially as members sought direction. 

00:40:02	Question: Other memories from the protests more generally? Answer: CL recalls the effort to keep the protests peaceful. A friend and former colleague visited Madison during the protests and had yelled provocative statements outside the Capitol. CL was sensitive to the possibility he might offend people, as having the public side with the protesters was very important.

00:43:03	[No question.] While at the protests, CL received a phone call about an issue within her department. Jo Nelson, a graduate student in her department, thought that the TAA had not made it sufficiently clear that participants in the teach-out could face repercussions. She demanded that the department officially support TAs who chose to participate. CL thought Nelson set a negative tone and risked antagonizing professors and staff. 

00:48:10	[No question.] CL remembers the support of the Madison and Capitol police, who were skilled at recognizing and resolving tenuous situations. Overall, the protesters had a good relationship with the police.

00:49:41	Question: Future plans for political involvement or organizing within the math department?  Answer: CL plans to encourage colleagues to become TAA members, and to help getting out the vote before the recall election. She remarks on how the difficulty of union recertification has undercut the Walker administration’s denial of union-busting. A friend (Regina McConaghey) worked to promote Kathleen Falk in the Democratic primary for the recall election. CL was hesitant to volunteer because she was not sure whether she supported Falk herself. 

00:55:11	End of Second Interview Session

End of Oral History #1228