UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #270
DeLUCA, HECTOR F.

DeLUCA, Hector F. (1930- )1
Graduate Student; Professor of Biochemistry
At UW: 1951-

Interviewed: 1983	
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 1.5 hours
Series: Life Sciences

Harry Steenbock as person and as laboratory teacher; Selection of students; Contrast between Biochemistry Department in 1930s and now; Research at Enzyme Institute; History of Molecular Biology Department; Importance of keeping abreast of developments in field; Biochemistry Department's record; Research on radioactive vitamins.

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:00	Interviewer’s introduction. 

00:00:07	LS shows HD index entries on Steenbock from a draft of index on life science interviews.

00:01:22	HD chose UW because Department of Biochemistry was said to be best in country.  

00:02:52	Steenbock offered him assistantship.  Had known about Steenbock, regarded him highly, and was pleased to be his student.

00:03:24	Steenbock was no longer teaching in classroom by 1951.  Was one of best people for training graduate students.  Ran lab very strictly.  Students were there from 8 to 5, and 8 to 12 on Saturdays.  No radios or whistling in lab.  HD does not payattention to such things in his lab.  Steenbock felt it interfered with others.  Was severe.  Elvehjem ran his lab similarly.  They would go to animal room at 8 a.m. Saturdays and Sundays and expect his students to be there.  Biochemistry was already changing by 1950.  Henry Lardy, Robert Burris, Snell, much more relaxed.  Other students teased HS's students.

00:06:52	Hard to adapt to rigidity at first.  Steenbock was in his late sixties and in poor health by 1951 so not doing most modern research.  But his ideas were good.  He taught HD how to write.

00:08:04	University should give him more credit.

00:08:28	HD doesn't think Steenbock controlled what students did (See Ihde interview).  If HD had a good idea and knew how to carry it out, it was never blocked.

00:10:52	Process of selecting students in department might account for someone's remark that Steenbock had poor students.  Steenbock lived by rules.  When they were broken, he would lecture and verbally abuse.  Treated his own and other graduate students same way.  Shared his lab with Snell's students.  Had built lab with own money.  Understandable that he would object when Snell students ruined a bench through carelessness.  He was a generous man if you got to know him.  Very unselfish.  Did a lot for campus.  Expected to be thanked.  Link never contributed anything to campus.

00:18:59	Steenbock let students know when they had done a good job.

00:19:41	Was not a good classroom teacher; Link was.

00:20:12	Marvin Johnson.  Brilliant, nervous.  Superbly inventive.  Students feared him.  HD took his enzymes course.  They became close friends.

00:23:32	On dicumarol affair.  Link ran an excellent lab.  Due solely to Stahmann that warfarin was patented.  Lawyer advised Stahmann to put several names on patent.  Stahmann made warfarin a money-earner.

00:27:06	Bitterness in 1930s.  Decency of department now due to patterns set by Burris, Lardy--second-generation.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:28:33	This group rallied around when any trouble arose.  Orme-Johnson was last one to give any trouble, is at MIT.

00:29:16	Exciting work in biochemistry during fifties was being done at Enzyme Institute.  Green was unapproachable by graduate students but Lardy would help anyone who asked and give all time needed.  Green's lab did some excellent biochemistry, but he was not one of most brilliant scientists at Enzyme Institute.  Lardy does outstanding work, superb with students.  He played a major role in making Enzyme Institute what it was.  Green's reputation diminished greatly in 1960's.  Co-enzyme Q was an important discovery, some of cytochrome work was good.  Cyclophorase was garbage.  DG lifted fatty acid oxidation work.  Drysdale and Lardy had made an important breakthrough.  A year or two later Green's lab said it was theirs.

00:34:12	Lardy should have been left in biochemistry.  Got an ulcer and suffered from being in Enzyme Institute.  Biochemistry lost a lot by not having him here.  An example of what a scientist ought to be.

00:35:04	Har Gobind Khorana a brilliant addition.  HD comments that Steenbock lecture Khorana gave in 1983 was completely new stuff.

00:35:55	Center of biochemistry has just shifted back to department.  Molecular biology didn't work out.  Just as biochemists had resisted moving into enzyme work, making it necessary to set up an enzyme institute, so they resisted moving into molecular biology.  Staff wouldn't consider adding four or five molecular biologists to department.  When faced with losing Halversen and Frees, department was willing to approve both molecular biology and biophysics.  Takes foresight to see where science is going.  People tend to want to add staff in their own fields.

00:39:39	In early 1950's and early 1960's, department was on a plateau.  Not doing any enzymology.  Then began looking for young, vigorous people.  HD thinks department was stagnating over Elvehjem, who was too busy with his administrative work and his lab to attend to department.

00:41:55	HD would never have let Hank Lardy or Van Potter get away.  Elvehjem was not focusing on department at time.  Interested in grad school and in presidency.  Burris began building but was not an aggressive person.  HD is aggressive.  Now have some brilliant people.  Julian Davies only serious loss recently.  Only two people recently hired came through department.

00:45:38	Elvehjem had offered HD an instructorship.  When Burris became chairman there was a mixup so HD stayed an instructor for two years.  Made Steenbock angry.  From 1955 to 1957 HD ran Steenbock's lab.  Spent eight months at Strangeways Lab.  Came back and was made assistant professor.  Steenbock retired in 1957 and HD inherited his lab.  Steenbock would come in but never interfered.  He offered to pay HD's salary.

00:50:32	HD became close to Steenbock because he stood up to him once.  Steenbock had strong defenses against being hurt.  They used to talk for hours--about many things, not just science.  He could take disagreement.  You had to work at knowing him.

00:57:17	End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

00:00:01	A student who suffered from Steenbock in 1940s.  Reflects mores of times.

00:01:26	Steenbock could be tolerant; didn't object when graduate students would cut up 	when he got out of lab at 5 p.m. 

00:02:44	Contrast in hours in lab then and now.

00:03:50	On synthesizing radiolabeled vitamins.  In 1962 or 63.  Dutch were here in March, 1968.  HD's group worked night and day until May 7th when finally got structure.  Not a single mistake.  John Blunt gave up in mid-April.  HD came in and figured out how to do it.  A Wednesday.  Sent sample to Schnoes in Berkeley.  But worked out spectrum on their own.  WARF and NIH encouraged them to take out patent application.  HD worked in lab until mid-1970s.  Too much administration, grantsmanship after that.

00:08:24	Yoko Tenaka's Ph.D.  She's now working in lab as scientist.

00:09:38	End of Interview

END