UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #885
RINGLER, RICHARD

RINGLER, Richard (1934- )
Professor of Scandinavian Studies
At UW: 1961-2002

Interviewed: 2007 (six sessions)			 
Interviewer: Robert Lange
Length: 12 hours, 25 minutes
Indexed by: Stephen A. Pierce

Abstract: In his six 2007 interviews with Robert Lange, Dick Ringler discusses growing up near Wauwatosa, WI; his involvement in the field of English and Scandinavian literature; Buddhism; and his advocacy for peace in a nuclear age. He talks about his circuitous career and his passion for music, literature, poetry, and things Wisconsin. Throughout the interview, he develops on topics such as the Wisconsin State Fair; education at Harvard; Anglo-Saxon and Icelandic studies; the influence of Beowulf, Hallgrímsson, Spenser, and Stevenson; religion and ethics; the Vietnam War era and the nuclear arms race; developing lectures and curriculum; awards and honors; and the influence of his parents. This interview was conducted for inclusion into the UW-Madison Oral History Program.

Key Words: Wauwatosa, WI; Milwaukee Journal; Jehovah’s Witnessism; music; Wisconsin State Fair; Sweden; science fiction; English literature; poetry; Harvard; elitism; Jónas Hallgrímsson; World War II; music; Edmund Spencer The Faerie Queen and “Mutabilitie Cantos”; University of Wisconsin-Madison; Frederic Cassidy; Edwin Muir; Beowulf; Iceland; Scandinavian Studies Department; publishing; Vietnam; Zen Buddhism; monasticism; Roshi Kapleau; Robert Louis Stevenson; Wisconsin Educators for Social Responsibility (WESR); nuclear arms race; Wisconsin Institute for Peace and Conflict Studies; lecturing; Joseph Dutton; translation; Dresden, Germany; websites and  technology; detective fiction.

First Interview Session; (October 22, 2007): Digital File
Time		Keywords

00:00:00	Start of interview/Interviewer’s introduction

00:00:25	Question: Talk about your birth and parents. Answer: Ringler was born January 21, 1934 in Milwaukee. He talked about his father (Hazleton) Paul Ringler’s (b. 1907) background in South Dakota and Iowa. His father was interested in writing, went to UW-M for journalism, where his siblings joined him, and became a correspondent for the Capital Times for politics and later the Madison bureau of the Milwaukee Journal. Ringler speculated that his father’s failure to finish college made him ambitious for him to finish and become a writer. He went through his father’s rise through the Journal ranks to become VP. Follow up: So his career mirrors the glory years of the Journal? Answer: Ringler attributed some of the success of those years to his father’s role. He discussed his father’s sadness when the Journal and the Milwaukee Sentinel merged.

00:06:13	[no question] Ringler thought that what had the greatest effect on him about his father was his integrity (though not moralistic)—he talked about his father’s friendship with Joe McCarthy before he went to the Senate, and his editorial opposition to McCarthy in the Journal, which ended the friendship. He told anecdotes of his parent’s conflict with McCarthy and McCarthy’s opportunism. 

00:10:25	Question: Were you raised to be politically active? Answer: Ringler responded that he felt his father wasn’t an “activist” (a term he didn’t like), but that everything you experience as a young person becomes important later on. He continued to talk about his father’s successful career at the Journal;—which he thought ended before the Vietnam War—retirement to LaHoya, CA, during which he was active in the International Press Institute (IPI) which was interested in freedom of the press throughout the world.

00:14:57	[no question] Ringler talked about his father’s New Deal political passion—he cried when FDR died—and his interest in writing, which Ringler inherited. His father died in 1990. Follow up: Did he come from a literary family? Answer: No, Ringler’s grandfather was a farmer and shopowner.

00:16:59	[no question] Ringler went on to talk about his mother, Freida Helen Newman, who was a talented pianist of immigrants—he talked about his grandparents—who moved to Milwaukee to escape the poverty of Sweden. He said his mother met his father through regular WTMJ (the radio affiliate of the Journal) piano concerts.

00:21:08	[no question] Ringler transitioned to make 3 general observations: that 1) he was a great lover of things Wisconsin; 2) he had never been able to draw much of a distinction between the personal and the profession, and UW has been very willing to let him go his own way; and 3) his passions were music and religion. This led him back to his mother’s early influence by his grandmother’s Jehovah’s Witness religion. Because his mother “overdid” her passion for music she had a nervous breakdown in 1948 in which she had apocalyptic visions and was institutionalized. He said she came out of this by becoming a devout JW.

00:25:55	[no question] Ringler discussed his father’s repudiation of his Catholic background and embarrassment about—but tolerance of—his mother’s religion. He talked about his mother’s involvement in JW meetings both in the US and abroad. Follow up: Did this impact you? Answer: Ringler said it impacted him tremendously, because his mother continuously tried to convert him and his sister to JWism. He told about this coming to a head when his mother tried to convert Ringler’s children, from which he grew to dislike proselytizing religions.

00:32:58	[no question] Ringler said his mother’s other legacy to him was music; she tried to teach him piano and had him take violin lessons, though this interest only flowered later. He went on to talk about being encouraged by his father to take a summer job with the publicity department of the Wisconsin State Fair in 1948 (Centennial)—he worked a mimeograph and with the entry department—he talked about the intricacies of this job and the administration building.

00:39:19	[no question] Ringler remembered working at this job for six or seven years, and even into college—through this, he came to love cows, etc. (especially Jerseys) He discussed being very impressed as a young man by the milieu of the fair and the Centennial Fair song. Follow up: You spent all summer at the fair? Answer: Yes, he was there to process entries at the beginning and the pace accelerated through the summer. He talked about feeling very important at this job.

00:43:20	[no question] Ringler related the formative experience of seeing a postcard from an Icelandic explorer, and being fascinated with Iceland and the geyser on the stamp. He also discussed being fascinated with writing and science fiction, especially that written in the 1950s about space. He felt that it was mind-expanding to read about a huge world outside of WI; so he started writing science fiction. He discussed a correspondence with an editor of a science fiction magazine who helped him publish some of this writing in Planet Stories.

00:48:13	[no question] Soon after this, the agent died and his career as a science fiction writer was over. Follow up: Do you have the manuscripts? Answer: Ringler didn’t have the manuscripts, but thought the story would be archived somewhere; he thought his mother, who kept a very neat house—he told an anecdote about her disposing of a dead canary—taught him to “travel light.” Also, his parents taught him to be modest. 

00:52:45	[no question] After Lange regretted this article being lost, Ringler related that the incident he regretted most in life was that when his father died, he allowed his mother to dispose of two filing cabinets of his father’s papers. Two years later, the Historical Society contacted him wanting his father’s papers, and he regretted not being strong enough to save the files.

00:56:47	[no question] He remembered going to elementary school in Elm Grove and high school in Wauwatosa. He recalled the schoolroom, a teacher who read stories, memorizing poems, and being disciplined for an incident. Follow up: Were you precocious? Answer: Ringler related a story about one teacher thinking he was stupid, but it becoming apparent that he was bored, and skipping a grade. He remembered Elm Grove at the time being between the city of Milwaukee and the farming district, but that the suburbs have now eaten it up.

01:02:18	[no question] From elementary, Ringler moved to talking about high school, where Elm Grove students were bused to Wauwatosa. One of his classmates at Wauwatosa East was John Morgridge, who has given millions to UW-M. He discussed Morgridge’s background, career, and philanthropy. He talked also about other later-prominent people with whom he went to school.

01:06:28	[no question] Ringler discussed teachers at Wauwatosa; the one who took an interest in him was a teacher who taught ancient history. He remembered that most other students weren’t interested, but he ate the material up. He was so interested that he availed himself of a Britannica service for research projects and wrote a long poem about the fall of Constantinople in 1453. The teacher had it published in Student Life as “The Fall of Byzantium” in 1950.

01:10:37	[no question] Ringler observed that he’d been writing poetry for some time, but in high school he began “churning it out.” Follow up: Why? Answer: Ringler noted his proficiency at language and the glory of poetry; he said the school had a literary magazine along with the newspaper. But he said Ms. Wright had been the one to get the poem published. Follow up: Were you aware of Beowulf? Answer: Ringler didn’t think he had an active interest in it; he recalled thinking of himself as a great intellectual with a chip on his shoulder.

01:15:09	[no question] Ringler talked about his pretentiousness—told anecdotes about taking Aurelius’ Meditations to basketball games and developing a Greek “tosa” cheer. Follow up: Were you known in HS? Answer: Ringler said yes, but for being this kind of oddball intellectualism; as opposed to his wife’s school, where intellectualism was not popular. He talked about the suburban context of Wauwatosa in relation to intellectualism and being “intellectual characters.”

01:20:44	[no question] Ringler also attributed his personality in HS to his father’s ambitions for him to get a classical education and go to Harvard and become a university big-shot. He talked about his proficiency at science (because of science fiction) and told a story about working to buy a telescope. Follow up: Did your father tell you he wanted you to go to Harvard? Answer: Ringler thought he had talked to him about it.

01:24:45	[no question] He mentioned that after learning Latin, he knew he would need to know other languages, so he got tutoring in French because it was easier than German. He noted thinking now that this is completely wrong, because French is idiomatic where German is logical. He remembered writing a lot of poetry and reading Spenser’s Faerie Queen, which he enjoyed more for image than actual substance (but he went on to do his Ph.D. about Spenser).

01:29:11	[no question] After graduation (1951), he remembered his father introducing him to a recent Harvard grad (Chas. Britteson) whose undergrad thesis brought him to WI; they went to the Washington Island Democratic convention in 1950 together. So in 1951 he did apply to Harvard and was accepted; he related a story about his HS counselor trying to get him to go to UW-M, and his father being “miffed.” Follow up: Did Harvard mean the same thing then? Answer: Ringler said it was bracketed with Yale, etc. as first-tier, unlike today, when it is unique.

01:35:09	[no question] Ringler talked about being even more left-leaning than his father and being a populist—and therefore having a love-hate relationship with the tradition of privilege at Harvard and the East Coast. Follow up: Were your class-mates patronizing because you were from WI? Answer: He talked about the Harvard “house” system and club system, which excluded people like him and which he made fun of.

01:39:45	Follow up: Other observations about the intellectual aristocracy of the 1950s? Answer: Ringler observed that some of his contemporaries were seduced by the East Coast club atmosphere, but people like him “kept thinking about the cows,” a world he enjoyed and missed—the elitism turned him off. Follow up: So you took what you could? Answer: Yes, he separated from the elitism and took his desire to be a professor of English. He talked about the new 4-year National Scholarship program, of which he was a recipient. Follow up: Did you have to earn it every year? Answer: No, but he didn’t think it was necessary to do so, because these students represented their states proudly.

01:46:17	[no question] Ringler related his annoyance with Harvard for being so pleased with themselves for being such a unique school. He said he doesn’t contribute to Harvard—he gives to peace and musical organizations that actually need money. He qualified that he felt Harvard was a great institution for research and learning, and he got a good education there, but he has no great love for it. He talked about the prestige of a Harvard Ph.D. in his day.

01:50:03	Question: Talk about influential professors at Harvard. Answer: Ringler talked about wanting to major in astronomy, but electing to take English 1 and Astronomy 1 his first semester—he there discovered that he loved the atmosphere of the small astronomy department, but that an astronomy major was more about science (chemistry, physics) than the science fiction he romanticized about. 

01:55:54	[no question] Because of the hard-science requirements of astronomy, Ringler decided in his second semester to turn toward English instead. He talked about following astronomy, writing about its influence in literature, and his continuing fascination with the religious/philosophical questions astronomy raises—which he attributed to his mother. Follow up: Do you develop friendships in the astronomy department at UW? Answer: No, Ringler talked about “investing” his interests elsewhere by the time he came to UW, and his interest in astronomy really being a romantic one, not a scientific one.

01:59:28	Question: You graduated magna cum laude from Harvard? Answer: Ringler said that though his department recommended him for summa cum laude, but he’d got a C in a class, so Harvard gave him magna. He regretted that he’d been so focused on academics that he never availed himself of Boston’s rich cultural heritage or theater, etc.—“house” culture also contributed to this phenomenon. He discussed working hard, living at Strauss Hall, Widener Library, and the sinking of the Titanic. 

02:05:17	[no question] After his first year, Ringler applied for Lowell House, which had a reputation for being intellectually inclined, with two great roomates. He said houses had different reputations, and talked about the furnishings of the houses. He recalled taking courses in English, particularly from Albert Freidman, BJ Whiting. He talked about tutorial sessions on the English model with Whiting about Chaucer; and told an anecdote about his dry wit. 

02:11:18	[no question] Ringler told another story about buying an 18th century first edition of Cowper’s poetry in DC, and later researching Cowper. He discovered that Cowper had had a psychotic episode only broken by a commitment to Methodism —which Ringler identified with his mother’s experience. He also talked about Cowper’s activism; anti-slavery views; insanity; and his “The Castaway.” He became fascinated by Cowper and wrote his undergraduate thesis on religious imagery in his poetry, which won a Harvard prize. He spoke about being advised to not get all his education at one school, and so returning to UW for his MA. 

02:20:10	End of First Interview Session

Second Interview Session (November 5, 2007): Digital File
Time		Keywords

00:00:00	Start of interview/Interviewer’s introduction

00:00:22	Question: Talk about your career after Harvard. Answer: Ringler told about a lot near his house in Elm Grove that had been excavated, turned into a shallow pond, and was filled with myriad tadpoles—he remembered how appalled he was with the unkindness of nature, that when the pond dried up the tadpoles were going to die. He quoted a poem by Icelandic writer Jónas Hallgrímsson which expressed the same despair with the cruelty of God and nature.

00:06:28	[no question] Ringler talked about having a longing as a young man for a reality beyond ordinary reality—he quipped about looking beyond the horizons. He also related growing up during World War II and going to Camp Lejeune to visit his uncle. He speculated that he didn’t really know a war was going on, but that that was going to change.

00:11:47	[no question] He discussed a trip to Europe (Germany, Italy, France) with a friend in the summer of 1954. He remembered the war damage they saw. In the same summer, he took courses at the Univ. of London and saw the same kind of damage. He also said he’d had a history of depression throughout his life—he read a poem he’d wrote called Sad Poem—and talked about the difficulty of restructuring feelings, times, and dates when he hadn’t kept a diary.

00:16:38	[no question] The final recollection he related about before graduate school was about his mother’s musical legacy. In college, he “got into” music, listening to music and getting interested in the lute—to the point that he later taught a course in Bach’s cantatas for Extension. 

00:20:03	[no question] Ringler went on to talk about getting an MA at UW-M; after being advised not to do his Master’s at Harvard, he recalled there was only one place for him—at UW. Follow up: Was professorship always the goal? Answer: Yes, he spoke again of his father’s ambition for him. He received a Woodrow Wilson fellowship, talked about saving money by renting at a boarding house, and reminisced about hanging out at the Badger Tavern and his ambiguity toward an academic life.

00:26:25	Question: Talk about influential faculty. Answer: Ringler talked about Frederic Cassidy’s work and reputation (who taught Beowulf)—he recalled now that Cassidy liked him. He also remembered Robert K. Presson, who taught Shakespeare and was “the most lovable teacher I ever had.” Follow up: What does that mean? Answer: He was humble and good to his students. He discussed studying King Lear, the family bond that is its central theme, and how the play effected his later life.

00:34:18	Question: How would you assess the impact of that year today? Answer: He’d read then Beowulf and King Lear, but he also recalled liking Madison more than Cambridge, sitting at the Union Terrace with people. And he got to know professors at UW better than his Harvard professors. Follow up: Was Cassidy a towering figure? Answer: Ringler didn’t think he’d started the Dictionary of American Regional English (DARE) that made him famous. Follow up: You knew that you were returning to Harvard? Answer: Yes, this was implied.

00:37:56	[no question] Ringler discussed applying back to Harvard in 1956, where he was awarded a Harvard Foundation prize fellowship for his first year. He remembered one course with Jack Sweeney, on contemporary poetry, that changed things for him. He talked about the conduct of the course and the anthology final assignment which acquainted him with Edwin Muir. He talked about Muir’s move from the Orkney’s to Glasgow and the pressures of modernity and Muir’s work.

00:43:33	[no question] Ringler remembered liking Muir very much, and writing poetry based upon his poetry. He read one of Muir’s poems, “The Brothers,” about Muir’s dream about his two long-dead brothers. He also discussed the content and style of Muir’s poems. He also recalled writing and publishing poetry in The Advocate, Harvard’s literary magazine; and read one of these “The Knot of Gordius.”

00:49:13	[no question] Ringler talked about moving from the graduate center to becoming a graduate tutor at Lowell House (which he called “palatial living” and talked about him sitting in state to receive tutees). He talked about the role of a resident tutor, a rather light-handed mentorship of undergraduates; he had good relationship with the students, though they complained he lectured too much at tutoring sessions.

00:54:21	[no question] Ringler went on to describe Monday night “high tables” at Lowell House, at which the house master, tutors, and some seniors sat on a dais, ate better food, and had literate conversation. He remembered his populism rebelling against this concept; but participating in the Strawberry Festival nonetheless. He also talked about his undergraduate classes, reading Dryden’s plays, and directing the Lowell House play (which he recalled not enjoying).

00:59:41	[no question] Ringler talked about writing a series of “shards,” 14 Italian sonnets in the voice of figures from the Trojan War. He recalled an undergraduate of his putting these to music and saving a copy, though he had destroyed the originals. While still ambiguous about literature, by the time he graduated from Harvard he was pretty much set upon becoming a professor.

01:03:33	[no question] He unpacked his summer experiences of 1957-58. He talked about living alone to study Italian and Dante on the farm of an Icelandic immigrant on Washington Island, WI during the summer of 1957. He would bicycle into town to get meals and visit the Gunnarson family, and he discussed the Icelandic culture of the islanders. In the next summer, he did the same thing, but lived in a tent at Hog Island beach on the island while studying for oral exams.

01:07:20	[no question] Ringler discussed meeting his wife the summer of 1958 at a bar on Washington Island. He talked about her education, work as a psychologist in Milwaukee, and the jobs and families of their son Thor Stephen and daughter.

01:11:33	[no question] He recalled getting a job as a timekeeper the summer of 1959 at the Green Giant plant. In December of that year, he and his wife married. He then recalled freezing up during his oral exams, but being brought back by a kind comment from his advisor. After this, he talked about living in Harvard Square while writing his dissertation

01:15:45	[no question] Ringler reminisced about this “miserable year,” partially because he was typing his own 600+ pp. dissertation, wrestling with carbon paper, a new baby and tutoring at Lowell House. He recalled that he could have stayed at Harvard after his Ph.D., but was advised against this by a senior scholar in favor of going to a more relaxed environment. He again talked about his love-hate relationship with Harvard and his decision to leave.
01:19:39	[no question] Ringler discussed applying in Madison (spring 1961), and being helped by Cassidy and Presson to get a job. Follow up: Did you keep in touch with them at Harvard? Answer: Ringler didn’t think so—he would have thought that was brown-nosing and wanted own record to stand on its own merits. He also applied to the University of Illinois, and discussed his dissertation on Spenser’s “Mutabilitie Cantos.”

01:23:11	[no question] Ringler mused about leaving Harvard, not to return other than for some lectures/conferences. He again discussed Harvard’s self-satisfaction and talked about famous people who’d taught at Harvard (including Edwin Muir). Follow up: Are you glad you went there? Answer: Yes, he appreciated the education he got there and the reputation and access to a job it provided. He thought he would have been happier at UW, but he was glad to go there.

01:27:45	Question: Who at UW interviewed you? Answer: He thought Helen White, Ricardo Quintana, etc.; and speculated that it was less grueling then than now because they wanted him back. Follow up: What position was this for? Answer: Ringler thought the expectation was that he’d teach Shakespeare and go on to be a Renaissance scholar. But he recalled that everyone had to do other things beside their specialty in those days. 

01:31:39	[no question] Ringler recalled Kimbrough also lobbying in his favor, but hesitated to call these people “friends” with whom he talked about the vote. Follow up: Did you give a guest lecture? Answer: No, though he did lecture on his dissertation when he arrived. He discussed differences between then and now; then UW was hiring many low level dispensable positions, while today there’s a commitment to mentoring new faculty toward tenure. Follow up: Was the department prestigious at the time? Answer: Ringler said there were some well-known people, but others who were not known. But he didn’t think about that—he wanted to be back in WI.

01:36:37	Question: Your peers at Harvard weren’t unhappy with the move? Answer: No, he speculated that had some of his professors harbored the thought of bringing him back to Harvard once he’d made it—he talked about Harvard’s tendency to hire talent from outside. He reminisced about being one of several hired that year, and sharing offices in beautiful old Bascom Hall; and spending time on the roof. He also talked about the debate over the move to Helen C. White Hall.

01:42:10	Question: Did any of your cohort go on to stay at UW? Answer: Ringler noted that only one went on to stay for his whole career (Eric Rothstein), though several stayed for a while. He observed that they all knew they were competing for who would stay, but they determined not to bring that competition into their relations with each other. He told the anecdotes of Cassidy’s dinner party centered around a spelling bee, which appalled Ringler because of the competition; and offending an older member of the faculty at another dinner party.

01:48:05	[no question] Ringler discussed his teaching load—Shakespeare sections and the difficulties of remedial English 2. He told stories about one student being awed by his Ph.D. from Harvard in his Shakespeare class and interacting with Merritt Hughes over flunking a MA oral examinant (Hughes felt the department’s standards were too lax). 

01:54:15	[no question] Ringler talked about feverishly publishing articles about Spenser during this first year—he gave the example of his “Faunus Episode” article published in Essential Articles on Edmund Spenser—and trying to get his dissertation published in C.S. Lewis’ series. He quipped about meeting with Helen White about the rejection letter he got from Lewis, and leaving feeling more dejected than when he’d come.

01:59:12	[no question] Ringler recalled going to an MLA conference with a friend, disdaining the “slave market” feel and pettiness of it, and fantasizing about leaving academia to live a fancy-free life. Follow up: Were you driven by tenure? Answer: He said he was writing to improve his CV and was aware of tenure; but he was not driven by feeling what he was doing was important or satisfying. But he said he didn’t feel this way throughout his entire career. He related hating faculty meetings—discussing minutiae—and daydreaming about the astrological signs of his colleagues.

02:07:28	[no question] Ringler turned to talk about teaching Old English in his second semester, which he was unprepared for; and the next year teaching Beowulf. He related not being excited about this, but having the poem “light up” for him half-way through the class; he realized he enjoyed the medieval point of view (“what is man, that though art mindful ...”) more than the Renaissance one (“man is the measure...”). He compared the pessimistic, faith-based medieval v. the optimist, humanist progress Renaissance view.

02:12:32	[no question] Ringler related this medieval/Renaissance dichotomy to the Anglo-Saxon experience. They saw evidence of Roman presence (forts, highways, etc.) and knew they were living in a “depression” after a highly civilized society; this awareness of unattainable past glory affected the Germanic mindset.

02:15:49	End of Second Interview Session

Third Interview Session (November 28, 2007): Digital File
Time		Keywords

00:00:00	Start of interview/Interviewer’s introduction

00:00:25	Question: Talk about your “conversion” to being a medievalist. Answer: Ringler said the one thing he was worried about in this regard was not knowing German. Counter-intuitively, he found German easier to learn than French. He also talked about the difficulties of speaking/writing Icelandic; while the inflections are very regular when written, the spoken language is difficult to understand. Follow up: Is Icelandic Germanic? Answer: Ringler discussed the history of the language as the language spoken by all of Scandinavia during the 9th and 10th centuries, and the influences that morphed other Scandinavian languages away from Old Norse.

00:06:22	Question: What year was this? Answer: This was in the early 1960s. He discussed his first Beowulf article published in 1966, as well as beginning to study Old Norse/Icelandic. He discussed the importance of the sea as the connector of a culture-area across Scandinavia, and gave the example of an Orkney Islands cathedral that reflects the same architecture as Durham cathedral.

00:09:31	[no question] He related that his interest in Old Norse resulted because he had let on that he understood references in his Beowulf book to Scandinavian sagas; to his great embarrassment, he had to confess to one student he couldn’t read Old Norse when presented with a poem. After this incident, he began auditing an Old Norse class. He remembered this being his first contact with the Scandinavian studies department. Follow up: Was this a well-established department? Answer: Yes, he said it’s the oldest of its kind in the US, started around 1870, and one of the two best in the country. He compared it to the one at University of Minnesota. 

00:15:40	[no question] Ringler then talked about how, when Holt-Rinehart-Winston offered the very busy Fred Cassidy to reedit Bright’s Anglo-Saxon Reader, he asked Ringler to collaborate—Cassidy would do the grammar, and Ringler the textual editing. He said the original plan was to simply update the 2nd edition, but he felt he needed to go back to the original manuscripts and edit a new edition, which took time and gave him an education in Anglo-Saxon and in textual editing.

00:20:02	Follow up: Was this a seminal work in your career? Answer: Yes, while his Beowulf article was important, more people used Bright’s; he still encountered people who’d learned the language from it. He talked about the book being the first reader to place a sample manuscript parallel to each edited text; and being more elaborate than the 2nd ed. He observed that it may be too extensive for beginner students, but it gave students a good introduction to reading texts.

00:26:07	Question: What was the department’s reaction to your move to medieval studies? Answer: Ringler didn’t recall getting “flack” for the decision; he remembered changing directions several times in his career and even being “on loan” to the Scandinavian studies dep’t for a long time. He related the book being published in 1971—it required several trips to England for research and him actually cut-and pasting the galley proofs himself.

00:30:49	[no question] Ringler went back to discussing Icelandic language integrity—which refuses to use loan-words, but develops new Germanic-rooted words for new concepts. He noted the difficulty of being a doctor or scientist in Iceland, where they have to learn two whole new lexicons, and the debates over these linguistic issues. He quipped about the fierce nationalism of Icelanders.

00:34:54	[no question] He continued telling a story about Halldor Halldorsson, who headed the new-word committee in Iceland and cornered Ringler about his study of Old Norse. Halldorsson recommended that he study Icelandic first, because it had a broader vocabulary, and offered for Ringler to study it intensively in Iceland. He discussed the issues involved with boarding in a small schoolhouse in northern Iceland to study Icelandic. 

00:39:46	[no question] Ringler related that this was the first extensive living-abroad experience he’d had. He discussed society in Iceland in the 1960s—food, radio, etc.—which was like going back 100 years and no longer exists. He reminisced living cheaply with the ghost staff of the farm-school—eating fish, lamb, birds, old horsemeat and acrid sausage and sugared mashed potatoes.

00:44:21	[no question] Continuing to talk about life in Iceland, he related being forbidden to read some (Communist) authors. Follow up: How was the weather? Answer: Ringler responded it was terrible, that the sun was only out 1 day in 10. He reported enjoying skyr, a yogurt-like dish which his infant daughter loved; and talked about people they spent time with that summer; a repairman and a tree-planter; the school director’s wife, who was a good horserider; and a local clergyman, who recited poetry to Ringler, once on an entire drive to Reykjavik.

00:51:00	[no question] He talked about the difference between the shabby school during their summer there and its transformation now. Follow up: Are Icelanders Danish? Answer: Ringler said that as much as anything, they’re Norwegian, though they’d capture Celtic slaves as well; some people attribute the literate nature of Icelanders to their Celtic background.

00:56:06	[no question] Ringler discussed Icelander’s belief in ghost; the director warned them of legends about ghosts of a woman dressed in white who’d haunted their room and the All Soul’s Eve haunting by former bishops. He related an incident in which some German visitors were ridiculing Icelandic legends, at which the annoyed director attested to the reality of the woman-in-white ghost; from this, he learned not to ridicule Icelandic legends.

00:59:59	[no question] Ringler evaluated the summer as “acutely miserable” at times, because they were lonely and had few friends, the weather was bad, his education was going slowly, the food was bad and the children were young. He talked about advising students later not to be afraid to be miserable in a foreign country. After returning, he applied for a grant to go back to study Icelandic for a year at the university. He talked about the insularity of Icelanders and how hard it was to get to know people; he got to know one friend who studied poetry with him. 

01:05:06	[no question] He quipped about drinking scotch because beer was outlawed, and the heavy drinking of people then because of the boring dark winters. Follow up: Had you suspended learning Old Norse? Answer: He’d been advised that if he learned Icelandic first, he’d be able to pick up Old Norse, and that proved right. Talking about the loneliness of this year, he recalled being stared at for dressing informally, and how visiting Norway was like going home because 1960s Iceland was so different. He feels grateful now to have experienced that past of Iceland.

01:10:34	[no question] Ringler reminisced about walking the streets of Reykjavik trying to get people to smile. Follow up: Was the department supportive of this? Answer: Yes, he felt departments at UW were flexible and supported people running with their interests. Follow up: Did you teach at Univ. of Iceland? Answer: No, he was only studying. He did write an article in a student-newspaper about a local poet.

01:14:20	[no question] He reported returning to UW and teaching Old Icelandic (and later other courses on the Vikings, etc.) in Fall 1966 because the former teacher had moved to Harvard. Follow up: Who takes Old Norse? Answer: Ringler observed that in order to get a MA or Ph.D. in Scandinavian studies one had to take a semester of Old Norse.

01:18:39	[no question] Ringler recalled that when he returned, he began making friends with Icelander graduate students in Madison and his ties with the Scandinavian studies department grew (as opposed to the huge and divisive English dept). Follow up: Were there non-major undergraduates? Answer: Ringler talked about some undergraduates who got interested in Vikings, etc.; high enrollments in a Scandinavian Life and Civilization course during the Vietnam era because students were thinking of leaving the US to avoid the draft

01:24:00	[no question] Continuing with this question of audience, he discussed the draw from the strong community of Norwegian-descent students in Wisconsin. He talked about the popularity of Norwegian and Swedish, though the dept. has difficulty populating Danish classes. He talked about the demographics of Racine Minneapolis, and Madison; and trying to funding a position in Old Icelandic.

01:28:09	[no question] Ringler discussed the ambiguity of being a “loaner” from English to Scandinavian studies. Follow up: Did you feel taken advantage of? Answer: No, while the salary may have suffered, he recalled being attracted to the more intimate social scene in Scandinavian studies. Follow up: Were you the primary Beowulf professor? Answer: Ringler recalled later sharing Beowulf with another scholar, and developing other courses—the Vikings, the Anglo-Saxons (where Ringler got to know Bill Cronon).

01:32:25	Question: Was Beowulf a year course? Answer: Ringler related that people would often take Old English in the fall, and then (a semester) Beowulf in the spring, but this has changed. Follow up: Is this [diminished emphasis on language] bad? Answer: Ringler equivocated, but thought that though you can read translations, it’s not “real.” He felt that knowing earlier phases of one’s language was important—he used the example of animal names following the Norman invasion.

01:37:21	[no question] Ringler continued this discussion by talking about his fascination with etymology; he quipped about the Germanic word “hammer,” which comes from the Stone-age term for the face of a cliff. He recalled talk of a course in etymology with some linguists.

01:40:57	[no question] Ringler talked about the next three summers: in 1968 in Iceland with some very close friends who’d attended UW. Instead of touring Iceland, he remembered being fixated upon the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia. In 1969, in England working on Bright’s, and in 1970 helping organize a “World of the Vikings” program. He talked about the Rock Island SP boathouse, of Viking construction, being converted into a mead-hall, and the program being an escape from the Vietnam context of the time—the trauma of the Sterling Hall bombing and the vacation from Madison tensions that was the program.

01:47:54	Question: Where were you during the 1969-70 academic year? What was it like? Answer: Ringler was on campus; in 1969 he was deaf to it because of other concerns, and in spring 1971 he was appointed Lithgow-Osborne lecturer for the American-Scandinavian Foundation. He discussed travelling to the 30 chapters, eating Swedish meatballs constantly, being loudly confronted over the Vietnam war at one meeting, and being given a painting by the best Icelandic painter.

01:53:13	[no question] Ringler recalled in 1971 publishing the Bright reader, moving into a new house, and deciding to write a book about Anglo-Saxon manuscripts. With an ACLS grant, he was in London during 1971-72, but after early failure, he turned to writing a short novel, travelling, and learning the lute—he discussed his teacher and a rigorous practice schedule. He realized, though, that he was too old to become proficient in the lute at any great level, and gave it up.

01:58:58	[no question] Ringler said that then in 1972-73, he began designing the Anglo-Saxon course. Follow up: Did you have to get permission from the college to start a new course? Answer: Ringler discussed how one goes about getting a course approved—go to the department, which wasn’t a problem, then go to the dean’s office and then the divisional committee. He talked about the course being cross listed in English, History, and medieval studies; and he related a similar experience trying to get his Vikings course cross listed. He talked about buying slides of British archaeological sites from a central depot.

02:04:10	Follow up: Did you learn startlingly new things while developing these courses? Answer: Ringler responded that initial course design has to be based upon one’s current knowledge, so no; but when designing individual detailed lectures, he came across exciting new details—he gave an example of a lecture on the geology of the British Isles discussing the effects of receding glaciations. He talked about the Thames at one point being a tributary of the Rhine.

02:09:00	[no question] Ringler continued to discuss his introductory lectures for the Anglo-Saxon class, about the Celts and Romans arriving in Britain. He discussed putting his three Roman lectures together to form a presentation for the Wisconsin Latin teachers association; and talked about the evidence Romans left in Britain. He contrasted Roman ideas and current ideas to Anglo-Saxon views of the world, which Ringler said was quite new to him when he developed the lectures.

02:13:34	Question: You got students from all across UW? Answer: Ringler recalled the course being tough, which he qualified as breadth and depth of readings. He remembered one of the “gloomiest” days of his life was when it was no longer possible to go to Kinkos and run off copies of the literature to pass out. He discussed what he expected out of his students. Follow up: What assignments? Answer: Ringler said there were no papers. Follow up: Why? Answer: Ringler didn’t feel it was part of his job to improve students’ writing skills; he wanted them to master substance rather than have the “chore” of writing a term paper.

02:18:59	[no question] Ringler shifted to talk about Vietnam. He recalled his poetry being anti-war and including a lot of violence, but not taking a high-profile stand. He read a poem that came out of his teaching, but related to the violence of the Vietnam War. Follow up: Was this political consciousness linked to your subsequent anti-nuclear activism? Answer: He said there had to be, though there were other sources for that activism.

02:23:08	[no question] Ringler recalled UW students disappointment that faculty didn’t take a stronger stand during Vietnam, and himself being one of those non-committal professors. He recalled famous quotes by Saxons about Roman imperialism and its correlation with modern imperialism. He discussed his allegiance to the faculty, and faculty meetings during Vietnam during which they were confronted by hostile students.

02:28:21	[no question] Ringler discussed the purge of those in the English department making radical statements. Follow up: Inappropriately so? Answer: Ringler felt that it was appropriate to suggest contemporary relevance of material, but not to sermonize about politics. He admired those with deeply held beliefs, but felt students should get what they pay for—education. He told the story of one young faculty being fired even though he’d just had a book accepted by Oxford UP; he remembered his contempt for the hypocrisy of this firing and his internal debate.

02:34:51	[no question] He related that during the period when police were using tear gas, he dressed “hippy-ish,” but had been elected chair of Scandinavian studies. One day as he bounded into the L&S office, a police officer threatened him. He also remembered being assigned to walk their secretary Mrs. Neilson to the bus; and an incident of students getting tear-gassed on the way to meeting at another student’s house, because they felt it was too dangerous to meet in their classroom. 

02:40:46	End of Third Interview Session

Fourth Interview Session (December 3, 2007): Digital File
Time		Keywords

00:00:00	Start of interview/Interviewer’s introduction

00:00:22	Question: Talk about your conversion to Buddhism. Answer: Ringler read to Lange an introduction to his 1981 talk about his 1973 conversion to Buddhism in China—the introduction spoke about “conversion” as a process, reincarnation as a monk and professor, autobiographical details of his family’s religious experience, proselytization, foolishness in college, and a “crisis” during which he was counseled by a psychologist and discovered books on Buddhism.

00:06:11	[no question] Continuing to read this statement, Ringler talked about “stumbling” across Watts, Suzuki, and Blythe on Zen and oneness. He recalled the death of his friend Richard Robinson, whose Tibetan memorial service touched him, and attending a series of talks in Britain about Buddhism. He and his wife became vegetarians and sought teaching in meditation—the first moment of commitment. He recalled his apprehension at these first steps—bizarre-ness v. normalcy.

00:09:42	[no question] Ringler discussed continuing when they returned to Madison. They joined a Madison group and applied to become Roshi Kapleau’s student. He told the Kapleau’s story of being a reporter at Nuremburg and the Japanese war crimes trials, and deciding to study Buddhism. He discussed Zen training—including meditation, sesshin meditation, and one-on-one sessions—for 10 years.

00:14:05	[no question] Ringler answered the “what’s the point” question; he told the anecdote of Dogen’s responses “I learned that my eyes are horizontal....” and “a tender heart.” He regretted burning his old poetry in effort to destroy the “old me” and reading Zen in English Literature, which saw Robert L. Stevenson as the epitome of Zen in an English author. 

00:18:42	[no question] Illustrating this last point, he read a fable by Stevenson, “The Sinking Ship,” in which a captain and his crew on a sinking ship discuss the human condition. He said at one point he wanted to write a book on the spiritual dimensions in Stevenson’s work, but Stevenson is not taking seriously. He then read a poem to Lange that he wrote about “The Death of Robert Louis Stevenson 1894.” Stevenson died of a cerebral hemorrhage in Samoa. 

00:25:55	[no question] Ringler then discussed working to refurbish the Madison groups meeting house. He talked about convincing the zoning commission that the group was not a church and didn’t need to bring the house to code; and discussing with the lawyer whether they believed in God. He read a poem called “Buddhism has no concept of God as such.” He talked about being less devout recently because all religions led people to excess—like agonizing over killing caterpillars. Ringler related an anecdote his teacher told about understanding the teachings of Zen and actually understanding Zen Buddhism. 

00:33:30	Question: How did this affect your work at UW? Answer: Ringler talked about teaching all the same courses, enjoying Beowulf’s ethical content, and dealing with deeper issues in his teaching. He said he was still a Buddhist and vegetarian, but had stopped meditating as intensely. He speculated that violence against humans would never stop as long as people still killed and ate animals.

00:35:54	[no question] Ringler discussed getting a distinguished teaching award in May 1974, publishing about Icelandic, and getting a grant to prepare a course on monasticism with two other professors. He studied the physical/communal/artistic aspects of Irish monasticism; and got interested in monasticism because the practice of spiritualism is often similar across faiths, though theology is different. He talked about a trip the course took to a monastery in Missouri.

00:40:30	Follow up: Who took this course? Answer: People interested in medieval history or spiritual practice or monasteries. He discussed visiting monasteries in the succeeding years, talking to monks, and his resistance to converting to Christianity until he had a moment of insight about not needing to believe everything he was saying when he said the Nicene Creed. He related one of Stevenson’s stories about the church father Athanasius.

00:46:32	[no question] Ringler discussed what he learned at the monastery in Iowa. He talked about St. Ignatius’ spiritual exercises—role playing a NT miracle story. Follow up: How many times did you teach the course? Answer: Ringler taught it twice, but there was enough student demand for it for more years.

00:49:31	[no question] He went on to talk about reading Stevenson’s fables on WPR in 1978. In 1979, he became the chief consultant of a Time-Life book on the Vikings. He discussed enjoying this, but it not being original work; and other work that came from the project. In 1980, he participated in an international conference on “Benedict and Scholastica” in celebration of an anniversary of St. Benedict of Nursia. 

00:53:56	[no question] Ringler discussed taking a pilgrimage with Kapleau in 1981 to China (the birthplace of Zen). They went to the monastery where Dogen studied; and Kapleau discovering that the abbots were primarily front men for the Chinese government. Ringler used his photos and experiences to develop a lecture called “Buddha and Mao,” which suggested that Mao Zedong’s interpretation of Marx was colored by his mother’s Buddhism.

00:59:54	[no question] Ringler discussed the thing about the China tour that affected him most—the population of the country. He remembered privacy being practically impossible to find. While driving through Nebraska to visit his parents in San Diego and reading a book by Nigel Caulder, he recalled having a “waking dream” of nuclear war; he thenceforth dedicated himself to preventing this eventuality.

01:05:35	[no question] Ringler speculated that this move toward activism came out of his Buddhism. He recalled a meeting in Boston in the spring of 1982 where he suggested a local organization (WESR—WI Educators for Social Responsibility) to fight nuclear war. Follow up: Were your colleagues interested? Answer: They were interested but not active; many of his Scandinavian studies colleagues were immigrants who didn’t feel they could stick their necks out. He also recalled being encouraged by the Wisconsin Idea.

01:09:36	[no question] Ringler then talked about starting a course at UW to raise consciousness about the dangers of nuclear war; they team-taught a multi-disciplinary course to educate people about the physics of it, the Soviet perspective, the US perspective, the legality of it, just war, etc. He reminisced about having a Soviet consular rep to Madison and later being visited by the FBI because of it. He talked also about the nuts and bolts of the course.

01:15:30	Follow up: Did you lead the creation of the course? How did you do it? Answer: Yes, he introduced all the lecturers. Ringler talked about canvassing to find people concerned about the issue and one person leading to another; about specific people involved; and about different perspectives they had. He remembered developing the syllabus with the help of colleagues and speakers, and getting Dean Cronon’s and the divisional committees’ consent and support.

01:19:38	Follow up: Was it groundbreaking? Answer: Ringler didn’t think there was anything like it. The course was publicized throughout the state, and the chair of the Board of Regents supported the course highly—felt it was the university putting its money where its mouth was. Follow up: Did you get leave to do it? Answer: He got credit for one course teaching for doing it.

01:23:01	[no question] Ringler talked about writing an article about the course for the Journal of College Science Teaching, and later being asked to write one for Academe. Follow up: Did it get attention from legislators? Answer: No, they must have noticed, but never denounced it. He remembered in 1983 being featured at a Midwest conference on the university and nuclear issues—he met Condoleeza Rice there—; being on the WESR board; and in 1984 meeting a Russian scientist who asked him to edit a supplement in the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists about teaching nuclear issues in regular courses.

01:29:27	End of Fourth Interview Session

Fifth Interview Session (December 5, 2007): Digital File
Time		Keywords

00:00:00	Start of interview/Interviewer’s introduction

00:00:19	Question: Talk about working with scientist in creating the nuclear war course. Answer: Ringler said he was stretched by the experience of dealing with scientists and political scientists, etc; but they had the common ground of concern about the issue. Follow up: What undergraduates took the course? Did you get people who thought you were wrong? Answer: Ringler noted that they did get students who objected to speakers, but that they’d tried to be balanced in the course, so they got a reputation for being unbiased and grounding students in the subject. 

00:04:28	[no question] He talked about the “outreach possibilities” of the course, since students were encouraged to do a project, and even present at their former high schools on the topic. He discussed the wide draw of students the course got and the size of the classes. He introduced the speakers to provide a level of continuity, and learned to do so from a Scandinavian introductory course. Follow up: Why did you stop? Answer: Ringler said he sold Cronon on it as a one-time course, and he got tired of doing all the grunt work.

00:10:08	Follow up: Did the Russian diplomat come each time? Answer: Ringler observed that the first offering was the most “frontloaded,” and after that he relied on local authorities on the matter. He talked about people volunteering their time because they thought it was an important issue. Follow up: When? Answer: 1984-86. He said that meanwhile, he’d gotten the idea for WIWPGC and was meeting with faculty from other institutions (Oshkosh, Green Bay, etc.). 

00:13:51	[no question] He went into detail about a conference they held for educators to raise awareness—plenary meetings; special interest sessions about the politics of nuclear war, the domestic implications, resistance to confronting the issue, peace studies, Russia, education v. indoctrination, ethical dilemmas, and practical suggestions for action; and open forums to discuss goals and a committee.

00:20:39	[no question] Ringler said he thought the Wisconsin Idea played an important role in his organization of Wisconsin Institute for War, Peace, and Global Cooperation and the conference. After the conference, there was an unofficial meeting of delegates from the different schools to work out a charter for the WIWPGC. Almost all the chancellors and presidents were willing to join the organization; Stevens Point was particularly generous and sympathetic.

00:24:31	[no question] Ringler talked about learning some things from talking to many college presidents; that UW-M was very big and impersonal—told an anecdote of a president who knew all the students names—and that other schools were doing important work. Follow up: Do you think your colleagues at these smaller schools are comparable intellects? Answer: Ringler responded that he’d met some very bright faculty at other schools, though teaching was rewarded more than research. He felt Madison’s leading researchers are some of the best in the world; but he was impressed by other UW institutions and private colleges.

00:30:48	[no question] He discussed the continuation of the WIWPGC “on a shoestring” funded by memberships from universities (he listed a number of these). The organization separated from Stevens Point’s peace studies foundation and became a 501C3 organization; they sponsor two statewide conferences each year, and publish a refereed annual journal. He talked about the topics of conferences which will garner interest but still be balanced.

00:36:10	Follow up: You’re still active in the organization? Answer: He talked about his different roles, but he’s still on the board of directors. He discussed student and faculty awards from the institute. Follow up: Do you keep the chancellors apprised? Answer: Yes, the director sends out significant packets of information about the institute’s activities. He talked about the initial decision not to run it as part of the UW system, which allowed private colleges to be involved but caused the organization to suffer financially. Follow up: This gives you a great deal of satisfaction? Answer: Yes, he discussed the difference between the WESR, which folded, and the WIWPGC, now the WI Institute for Peace and Conflict Studies, which had broader appeal. 

00:43:14	[no question] Ringler discussed liking working on lectures with sound and visual effects, and developing lectures on nuclear war which he’d given scores of times. He discussed speaking “on the cheap” and honoraria. These lectures forced him to learn about weapons, etc., in order to answer questions; but enjoying discussing what the arts have to say about war and peace, and enjoying illustrating lectures.

00:48:24	[no question] Ringler talked about his lecture on Stevenson, and not being able to find a publisher to publish a book on his ethics. Follow up: Why not? Answer: Because in working out the canons, people have ruled out Stevenson as unimportant. He discussed Stevenson’s travel to the South Seas; visiting a leper colony established by Father Damien; and meeting Joseph Dutton.

00:52:59	[no question] Ringler discussed Joseph Dutton, who was from Janesville, WI, and eventually moved to help Damien in Hawaii and run this leper colony. He talked about Stevenson’s talk with Dutton, and their admiration with each other. Ringler then developed a lecture on Stevenson and Dutton with pictures of the leper colony; and talked about giving the lecture in several places. He remarked about loving the “WI boy makes good” theme; and talked a bit about Dutton—his political pull, death in the 1930s, and books and papers about him.

01:01:04	[no question] Ringler discussed his 1986 invitation to a Harvard/MIT conference on arms control; writing articles on war and peace in literature; developing lectures on Roman Britain, St. Cuthbert, monks of Ireland; and wanting to start a program at UW-M. He talked about getting money from a private donor for the Center for International Cooperation and Security Studies, which gave some summer programs but never got past its initial funding. He discussed his feelings about the failure of this and the WESR to continue going.

01:06:34	[no question] Ringler speculated that the Political Science department wasn’t interested in peace studies; that the realism of the discipline dictates against the “wet” nature of peace studies. But he continued to talk about programs being developed by WIWPGC, including a radio program. He discussed the institute’s relationship with high-ranking military officers, many of whom were “peaceniks.” 

01:10:23	[no question] He talked about deciding in 1988 to study German at a Goethe institute and the University of Giessen. He discussed his disappointment that the German dept. there wouldn’t let him teach a course on British, American, and German WWI poetry. He also discussed bouts of depression and his appreciation of his psychiatrist in 1989 (and following).

01:14:44	[no question] In April 1990, Ringler’s father died. He discussed his relationship with his father, reading a letter his father wrote to his cousin about politics, the concept of liberalism, his frustration with the direction of people in the US in the late 1980s, and thoughts on Reagan. 

01:19:43	[no question] Ringler quipped about admiring his father, but “he was just my dad,” and not understanding how great a man he was. He discussed his dad’s funeral; quoted a tribute to him by Sig Gissler about the McCarthy era; and talked about spontaneous tributes at the end of the funeral. He talked about a touching letter he was written by a parent of one of his students at UW.

01:24:05	[no question] He suggested that he’d inherited from his father his seriousness about what was going on in the world, his judgment, and his sanity. From his mother, he got his love of music, artistry, imaginativeness, spirituality, craziness and sense of humor. He read a tribute poem about his father’s ashes being spread over the Pacific Ocean.

01:27:43	[no question] Ringler discussed developing courses in the English department on war and peace in literature between 1989 and 1993. Also, between 1990 and 1993, he helped develop a print and audio course with WPR for Annenberg Foundation. He talked about the team that assembled the course—himself, David Hansen, Leonard Gambrell, Kent Shifferd, Patricia Mische and Gwyn Dyer—and issues they had to hammer out in order to produce the course.

01:33:14	[no question] He went on to talk about the product of this course—two huge volumes of material published in 1993 and narrating the programs for WPR. He complained that in the end it was unsuccessful because WPR and Annenberg didn’t have a distribution mechanism, so it wasn’t widely circulated. He talked about the hollowness of the awards they received. He talked about the goal of implementing college courses and people who developed the radio programs.

01:39:02	[no question] Ringler talked about putting together a collection of his early poems and translations of some Icelandic poets for his 60th birthday in 1994; as a result of this, Ringler was encouraged to do more translation of Hallgrímsson, whose career changed the Icelandic language and led the independence movement in Iceland. Though considered untranslatable and unknown outside Iceland, over 10 years of work and travel, Ringler achieved critical acclaim for his translations of Hallgrímsson.

01:44:20	[no question] Ringler showed Lange an interview he’d done for an Icelandic paper—and talked about Hallgrímsson’s appeal for him and for Icelanders. The same year, 1994, he published his first Hallgrímsson article, and he spent spring 1996 in Iceland working on it. He talked about his appearances on Icelandic TV and radio, singing one of the poems on national TV, and being recognized in the supermarket. He remarked how laborious the translations were.

01:50:04	End of Fifth Interview Session

Sixth Interview Session (December 6, 2007): Digital File
Time		Keywords

00:00:00	Start of interview/Interviewer’s introduction

00:00:21	Question: Talk about the mid-90s. Answer: Ringler discussed putting together a lecture on the bombing of Dresden, Germany. He talked about using pictures of Dresden, Kurt Vonnegut’s work, and Shostakovich to supplement the lecture. He recalled giving the lecture in Music Hall in 1995, and the vengeful purpose of the bombings.

00:05:58	[no question] Ringler noted that one of the complexities that attracted him to Beowulf was its discussion of war attitudes—he discussed some of the story’s context of warfare between Geats and Danes. Follow up: Did you make that connection in your Dresden lecture? Answer: No, he believed they were connected but had not done so in the lecture. He related a story about being challenged for sympathizing with the Germans during on Dresden lecture, and the answer he found to this challenge in Vonnegut’s work.

00:12:10	[no question] Ringler talked about deciding in 1997 to translate Beowulf—he started working on it in Utah that year. He discussed the boldness and challenges of this work, and mentioned he might not have started if he’d known Seamus Heaney was working on a translation. He talked about never committing to the project of an edition because of the intensive time involved.

00:16:24	[no question] In 1998, Ringler said, his work on Hallgrímsson resulted in a website produced by UW library. This website came out of a multimedia lecture he’d given at UW, at which a library employee suggested he have a website created from it. He confessed being intimidated by the technology involved, but also discussed those who’d helped him prepare the website, its reception in Iceland, and talks about a website for instruction in modern Icelandic.

00:22:29	[no question] Ringler continued discussing developing a website called Learning Icelandic, a cooperative project between UW and the University of Iceland, which has moved forward but has become entirely a UI project now. He noted its success and funding. During this time, they traveled throughout Iceland, and Ringler was publishing on the theory and practice of translation.

00:26:04	[no question] Ringler talked about receiving a commendation in 2000 from an Icelandic ministry and about top UI officials coming to Madison to discuss with UW administration what it’s like to merge a system of schools together. He discussed a memorandum of agreement between the two universities.

00:29:47	[no question] Ringler recalled retirement looming (in 2001) because he was 65 and he was tired of teaching the same courses in the same way. He retired in 2002, declining a retirement party in lieu of giving a series of six lectures (Dresden, Dutton, etc.) He also read a letter from a former student.

00:33:48	[no question] In 2002, he also published Bard of Iceland about Jonas Hallgríms-son. He discussed the difficulty of finding a publisher because Hallgrímsson is not well known outside of Iceland—he first worked with Cornell Press, but eventually UW Press picked up the manuscript, and he won a UW Press award. He discussed the cost of producing the book and Icelandic support for its publication.

00:39:00	[no question] Ringler mentioned that after Jenny Jochens had read the book, she would establish their late daughter’s memorial fund for an annual fellowship—a $900,000 donation. He also related his involvement translating a Hallgrímsson poem for the dedication of a park and reading his translation at the dedication. Reading the same poem translation “Valley Song” later at the University of Reykjavik, he quipped about getting a spontaneous ovation for his translation, and about it being “worth much more than $900,000 in a funny way.”

00:46:50	[no question] In January 2004, he talked about being awarded the Knights Cross of the Order of the Falcon by the President of Iceland. He noted being given a copy of the letter of petition signed by all his Icelandic friends, the injunction that his medal be returned to the President upon his death, and his near-refusal to wear a tuxedo at the event. Follow up: So are you Sir Ringler? Answer: He responded that those titles aren’t used in Iceland, though he is a knight in Iceland, and also related the rules of when he can wear the medal.

00:52:41	[no question] Ringler recalled that in February 2004, he began giving his course on Bach’s cantatas in Extension. He said he felt justified to do so because they’re based on hymn texts, and therefore can be interpreted as texts. In October 2004, he was also awarded an honorary Ph.D. by UI, at which he wore Harvard regalia. In 2005, he was made an honorary consul of Iceland in Madison, for which he has little responsibility other than stamping absentee ballots during elections—he is invited to attend consular events in Reykjavik, but has never gone.

00:59:12	[no question] Also in 2005, he said, UW library published a website for his Beowulf material. Upon finishing the translation, which was made for the purpose of public reading, he read the entire text (3 hrs.) at Chazen, and a reading was included in the website. A friend from WPR also helped produce a CD version of the poem. In 2007, the book Beowulf: A New Translation for Oral Delivery was finally published. 

01:04:29	[no question] He discussed the inclusion by the publisher of a long introduction and the translation of several minor Old English poems. He recalled how hard it was to write the introduction, because of the problem of condensing all he knew into 100 pages. Follow up: Were you satisfied with the introduction? Answer: No, because all his knowledge about Beowulf isn’t there. Ringler went on to read one of the other three poems which suggests the pessimistic Anglo-Saxon worldview of the transience of glory; and a passage of his Beowulf translation, in which Hrothgar bids farewell to Beowulf and advises him to turn from pride.

01:12:12	[no question] Ringler talked about his recent activities—attending Hallgrímsson’s 200th birthday anniversary celebration in Iceland and writing for it. He discussed the narrow appeal of Hallgrímsson, even in Scandinavian countries; and Hall-grímsson’s poetry itself, in terms of its grasp of language and its spirituality (i.e. his “atheism” of empirical epistemology).  Follow up: Is your advocacy for Hallgrímsson the same as your advocacy for Stevenson? Answer: In a very vague way. He said his work with Stevenson is considered a little bizarre, but in Iceland everyone respects Hallgrímsson. He discussed the problems of acknowledging great works in other languages than English. 

01:20:28	[no question] Ringler discussed his hope for his work to have some impact. He read a sonnet by Wordsworth which talked about “serving the future hour,” and the importance of affect in comparison with intellect. He also discussed what he thought was most important in teaching: start at the beginning, bring students along with you rather than try to impress, make complex things accessible, stress ethical and religious dimensions of topics, get students to start thinking.

01:26:05	[no question] Continuing with his thoughts on good teaching, he stressed being passionate, telling a story about how he’d lost his fire for Beowulf once when prescribed antidepressants and deciding he’d rather be anxious than zombie-like. He also advised demonstrating an idea or an understanding of something rather than trying to explain it. He remembered Bill Cronon as his most distinguished student.

01:30:09	[no question] Regarding service, Ringler said while his father saw him becoming a great university administrator, he never wanted that. Follow up: You never disappointed yourself though? Answer: No, Ringler was grateful to be at a university where he could do what he wanted. He mentioned he was willing to do his part of administration—a Divisional committee, Faculty Senate—he told the anecdote of being applauded for criticizing a motion to create more committees.

01:35:34	[no question]  Ringler continued talking about service—being Scandinavian chair, which he felt he was good at, because he discouraged competitiveness and resisted recognizing “stars.” Follow up: Did you get along with the dean? Answer: Yes, he talked about Dean Cronon being a good administrator, and the Scandinavian dept. getting along well with South Hall. 

01:39:41	[no question] Ringler discussed his political views—saying “we must defend all rights of all people”—his religious views, his belief that being a musician is the best thing to be, that Ingmar Bergman was the best film-director, and their family not having a television, which he said “depletes me.” He remarked on reading Arthur Conan Doyle, G. K. Chesterton, Michael Innes, and Tony Hillerman.

01:44:00	[no question] Ringler thought that global warming was the big problem in the world today, and the dislocations and political implications of what he called “eco-suicide”—the chaotic use of resources from greed, anger, and ignorance. He thought that civilization could collapse, citing the Romans and Anglo-Saxons, and read another of his poems. He also mentioned his gratefulness for being able to go over his life’s work as part of this oral history.

01:49:47	End of Sixth Interview Session

End of Oral History #885