UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #720
SCHEUB, HAROLD

SCHEUB, Harold (1931- )
Professor, Department of African Languages and Literature; Graduate student
At UW: 1965-

Interviewed: 2005	
Interviewer: Robert Lange
Length: 6 hours, 2 minuets

Childhood; Race relations in Gary; Air Force service; College education; Teaching at Valparaiso University; Masindi Senior Secondary School in Uganda; Department of African languages and literature; Research in South Africa; Teaching philosophy;  Committee service.

First Interview Session (August 16, 2005): Tapes 1-4

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:35	Harold Scheub was born in Gary, Indiana in 1931.  He describes his childhood.

00:01:40	He talks about racial segregation in Gary.

00:03:50	His family was harassed during the Second World War because they were of German descent.

00:05:30	HS attended a Lutheran grade school.  He relates how he lost his religion.

00:07:20	Growing up during the Depression, HS worked on the railroad.

00:10:05	After high school he worked in a local steel mill, where he worked alongside and learned from poor African Americans.

00:14:30	HS joined the Air Force in order to leave Gary and take advantage of the GI Bill funding for a college education.

00:15:33	He encountered more racial segregation during boot training.

00:17:30	HS discusses the impact of Eleanor Roosevelt's advocacy of racial equality.

00:21:30	He talks about McCarthyism.

00:23:55	HS served as a jet mechanic while he was in the Air Force.

00:25:25	He describes his fascination with the Chicago jazz scene.

00:27:30	HS was stationed in Wichita Falls, Kansas when he first joined the Air Force.  He recalls traveling in California while waiting to be shipped out to Korea.

00:29:45	He read Plato and Aristotle while working at Amarillo Air Force Base.  He attended Amarillo Junior College.

00:31:28	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:31:40	Harold Scheub talks about living in integrated quarters while working for the Air Force in Amarillo, Texas.

00:34:30	Aspirations to study English in college derived from his wide reading of literature.

00:34:50	HS explains why he chose the books he read, including Charles Dickens and mystery novels.

00:37:00	He assesses the impact on his life of his Air Force experience.

00:39:10	HS went to the University of Michigan to study literature.  He recalls several visits to the campus by Eleanor Roosevelt.

00:41:32	He talks about his undergraduate and graduate years at Michigan.  He wrote his master's thesis on The Great Gatsby.

00:46:39	The oral traditions of English literature interested HS most of all.

00:49:30	After receiving his master's degree he taught composition courses at Valparaiso University.

00:53:15	Britain needed high school teachers to go to East Africa to prepare citizens for independence.  HS went for two years.  He recalls staying in Nigeria while en route to Uganda.

00:57:15	HS was assigned to the Masindi Senior Secondary School in Masindi, Uganda.  He talks about the town of Masindi.  HS taught history and coached soccer.

01:02:42	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

00:00:13	Harold Scheub continues to discuss his teaching in Uganda and the impact of colonialism on the people there.

00:01:40	He talks about traveling in Africa.

00:03:55	HS describes the social and economic conditions of Uganda.

00:06:45	He describes his students.

00:07:48	HS encountered African oral traditions during this time.

00:08:55	British colonial administration.

00:12:50	HS summarizes his experience in Uganda.  He describes the work and attitudes of missionaries and teachers there.

00:24:40	Upon returning to the US he taught again at Valparaiso University.

00:26:40	HS took students to the South to register voters.

00:29:45	He relates a story about George Wallace's canceled visit to Valparaiso.

00:31:22	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2

00:31:25	Harold Scheub tells a story about the relationship between the University of Wisconsin and companies and schools in South Africa.

00:34:30	He resumes his discussion of taking students to the American South to register voters.  He also talks about his relationship with students and administrators at Valparaiso.

00:39:00	HS studied Swahili at UCLA in the summer of 1965 while the Watts riots occurred.  

00:41:30	Philip Curtin invited HS to study in the department of African languages and literature at the University of Wisconsin.

00:43:00	HS worked with Archibald Campbell Jordan, who encouraged him to study Xhosa and go to South Africa to do research.

00:45:30	He describes campus activism in the late 1960s.  The department of African languages and literature refused to hold classes while soldiers were stationed on campus.

00:52:00	HS contrasts his life with that of his brothers.

00:54:00	He relates several stories about his time in South Africa.

01:02:39	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 3/Side 1

00:00:15	Harold Scheub describes his plan for researching oral traditions in South Africa.

00:02:15	Local people were reluctant to cooperate with HS.

00:04:05	His equipment included a tape recorder, tapes, and a camera.

00:05:20	Traditional doctors cooperated with him and eased his entry into local tribes.

00:06:00	HS describes his research methods.

00:07:40	An elderly bard in service of a tribal king related the history of his tribe to HS.  HS became an apprentice to this poet and was admitted into the king’s court for the reading of the bard’s poems.

00:09:10	Sometimes he followed missionaries into the mountains to find tribes.

00:10:00	HS was permitted to hear local Xhosa oral traditions if he would tell his own stories.

00:11:02	He talks about the popularity of Mohammad Ali among the people in South Africa.

00:13:10	The local people showed great hospitality toward HS.

00:15:10	He relates collecting an entire repertory of stories from a single woman whom he considered the greatest storyteller he had ever met.

00:17:25	HS describes his research among the Zulu.

00:19:50	He received funding for his research from numerous sources.

00:20:40	HS recalls discussing his research with Professor A.C. Jordan upon his return to the US.  Jordan was suffering from lung cancer at the time and died before HS completed his dissertation.

00:25:25	Crawford Young, chair of the African studies department, offered HS a job at UW.

00:27:45	He returned to South Africa three times while he was an assistant professor at UW.  He mostly pursued research among Xhosa and Zulu.

00:30:10	In the mid-1970s HS received a Fulbright Lectureship at the University of Lesotho.  He talks about the political climate and recalls meeting some young revolutionaries.

00:31:20	End of side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:31:35	Harold Scheub describes his second trip to South Africa and his experiences of apartheid.  He also talks about the attitudes of local whites to his research on oral traditions.

00:35:35	He resumes his discussion of his third return to South Africa in May and June 1976.

00:38:00	The South African government repressed protests in Soweto and Johannesburg.  

00:40:50	HS talks about the capture, torture, and funeral of an anti-apartheid leader.

00:46:10	A woman storyteller named Masithathu narrated a 500 hour story about the origins of Xhosa society from a woman’s point of view.  HS talks about his attempts to transcribe and translate this epic.

00:54:35	Memorial Library at the University of Wisconsin-Madison has digitized HS’s tapes and will send a copy to the University of Cape Town Library.  HS had promised all the storytellers whom he recorded that he would make a copy of them available for future generations.

00:56:20	HS speculates about the legacy of his research.

01:02:33	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 4/Side 1

00:01:15	Harold Scheub describes traveling to Cairo in 1963 and viewing hieroglyphs.

00:03:50	HS relates being on a hijacked plane.

00:10:45	He tells a story about underground politicians in South Africa.

00:14:35	HS talks about the prospects for political and racial unity in South Africa.

00:24:00	His career has taken “accidental” paths.  He talks about learning through experience.

00:31:02	End of side.

Second Interview Session (August 17, 2005): Tapes 4-6

Tape 4/Side 2

00:31:30	Harold Scheub describes the founding of the department of African languages and literature.  Philip Curtin and Jan Vansina started the department.

00:33:40	The initial faculty were drawn from across the globe.

00:35:58	HS talks about the career paths taken by the department’s graduates.

00:37:09	He describes the evolution of the department and its faculty.

00:40:40	Since the 1980s there has been a shift in the focus of research from oral collections as literature to these collections as sources for anthropology and history.

00:44:20	HS laments the loss of dying African languages and oral traditions that have yet to be codified and collected.

00:50:35	The College of Letters & Science pressured the department to increase enrollments.  The department subsequently created an undergraduate program.

00:53:00	HS developed a popular course for undergraduates called “The African Storyteller.”

00:58:10	He describes his graduate seminars.

00:59:20	HS explains his philosophy of teaching.

0:1:02:18 	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 5/Side 1

00:00:10	Harold Scheub continues to discuss his teaching philosophy.

00:09:45	Both students and teachers have become more hesitant to speak on certain issues.  HS describes the impact of this development on the classroom.

00:17:20	He relates a story about the disruption of his class.

00:30:10	HS discusses the performative dimension of his teaching.

00:31:19	End of side.

Tape 5/Side 2

00:31:25	Harold Scheub describes how he uses his traveling experiences in his teaching.

00:33:25	HS talks about his course, “The African Storyteller,” and its recent withdrawal from the ethnic studies curriculum.  He proceeds to describe his attitude toward diversity issues.

00:37:00	He elaborates his beliefs about multiculturalism, political correctness, and diversity.

00:48:20	HS served as department chair as well as chair of the African Studies program.

00:49:55	He describes his service on the Faculty Appeals Committee.

00:52:40	HS discusses his participation on numerous departmental review committees.

01:02:33	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 6/Side 1

00:00:17	Harold Scheub relates an incident that arose during his chairmanship of the department of African languages and literature.  The incident was investigated by the Civil Rights Commission.

00:05:10	HS describes his service on the Faculty Senate.

00:05:40	He organized culture weeks for the African Studies program.

00:07:25	HS talks about faculty governance.

00:13:05	The Wisconsin Idea appealed to HS and influenced his outreach activities.  

00:14:45	He talks about speaking at a UW commencement in 1993.

00:17:10	HS resumes his discussion of his committee service and faculty governance.

00:23:40	He describes using his storytelling as part of his outreach speaking activities.

00:29:40	He talks about speaking at national conventions.

00:31:25	End of side.

Tape 6/Side 2

00:31:30	Harold Scheub continues to discuss his conference speaking.

00:32:35	He talks about the importance of storytelling.

00:36:20	HS researched African myth systems and found similarities with other systems.

00:39:20	He criticizes myths about Africans as being exotic and different.  He also discusses controversies among academics about the interpretation of African myths and stories.

00:45:50	HS talks about the contemporary repercussions of these images of Africa.

00:51:25	End of interview.

END