UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1094
KRUSE, CARRIE

KRUSE, CARRIE (1965-)
Director, College Library
At UW: 1989-

Interviewed: 	2010 (2 sessions)
Interviewer: 	Eric Trekell
Index by: 	Stephen A. Pierce
Length: 	2 hours, 7 minutes
Series:		UW-Madison LGBT Oral History Project

Abstract: In her July 2010 interviews with Eric Trekell, Carrie Kruse discusses her role as a member of the LGBT community in Madison from the 1980s to the late 2000s.  She chronicles the importance of local Madison influences, family, and her education in her choice to come out as a lesbian early in her career at UW.  She then describes how she has participated in the political activism of the community and how the LGBT community has been transformed throughout its history.  This interview was conducted for inclusion into the LGBT Oral History Project, a part of UW-Madison’s Oral History Program.

Key Words: Madison WI; feminism; Room of One’s Own; Lysistrata; University of Wisconsin-Madison; Earlham College; Lesbian Variety Show; Hotel Washington; School of Library and Information Sciences (SLIS); OutReach; 2006 same-sex marriage ban; commitment ceremony; game night; Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network (GLSEN);  Madison West High School; political activism.

First Interview Session (July 23, 2010): Digital File

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:36	Question: Talk about your growing up experience. Answer: Kruse noted that her family moved to Madison when she was 13. While she didn’t initially identify as a lesbian, she was a feminist and equal rights activist even as a young adult. She cited several examples of how she was proud of being a liberal Madisonian but not having an explicitly lesbian identity—the burning of Lysistrata, the passage of gay rights legislation under the Earl administration in WI.

00:04:04	[no question] She discussed her undergraduate college years at Earlham College in IN. Again, while she was tapped into feminism and lesbianism, she didn’t identify as a lesbian at that point. After graduating, she worked at Steep-n-Brew on State Street for 2 years, which she described as a great, fun, Bohemian atmosphere where she “very specifically didn’t come out as straight.”

00:06:21	[no question] She observed that it was her Steep-n-Brew colleagues who invited her to the 2nd annual Lesbian Variety Show, which she described.

00:07:31	[no question] She outlined her early involvement in gay pride activism, observing that her coming out was “kind of a non-issue” for her progressive family. Thus, gay pride was less of a struggle for her as simply joining a movement already in progress.

00:10:31	Follow up: The Madison Gay Pride March? Answer: She quipped that it snowed, even though it was May, offering recollections about Tammy Baldwin speaking and other local political activists.

00:12:40	Follow up: Fallen Women concerts? Answer: She didn’t recall Fallen Women specifically, but she did attend feminist concerts, some of which may have been sponsored by Fallen Women. She reflected about being aware of the limits of the early movement, when being marginalized meant one would take whatever one was given, even if it weren’t the best music, movies, or books.

00:14:43	Question: Feelings about being out in Madison? Answer: She said she felt like UW was a bit like the Earlham bubble, a level of openness and tolerance she didn’t take for granted but didn’t see as the ultimate goal.

00:18:17	Question: Dates in Madison? Answer: She outlined the social scene in Madison—New Bar, Hotel Washington, etc. She gave some examples of how even Madison culture was largely heterosexist—assumptions about two girls at a restaurant, heterosexuals “coming out” in professional settings, etc.

00:23:39	Follow up: More about Hotel Washington? Answer: Noting that her partner and she went to Barber’s Closet for their first date, she said she was in town when “the great tragedy” happened and was saddened to see the location burn down; but she also noted that she wasn’t much of a bar/softball person, so her support was consciously thought out rather than just being a place to socialize.

00:26:44	Follow up: Have you always been that aware of using your money in that way? Answer: Not as much as she is now, but she was increasingly aware of it.

00:28:04	Question: AIDS? Answer: She said she’d known very few victims of AIDS, though she was aware of it through her musical activities. She supposed she was much more aware of the activism around it than she actually was of AIDS.

00:30:43	Trekell and Kruse discussed her limited awareness of the 10% Society.

00:31:43	Question: Involvement at UW? Answer: After starting as a graduate student in English, she said she had a bit of a career crisis and switched to Library School. She’d been working at libraries through HS and college, and got a job at the Music Library, so this was a bit of an “aha!” moment.

00:33:58	[no question] She discussed getting a classified position for the reserves at College Library after Library School. She at first thought this would be a temporary position, but found she liked the job and stayed there until she was hired into a professional position at College Library. She outlined how she worked her way through the system

00:35:45	Follow up: The acquisition of LGBT scholarship? Answer: She said she’d been aware of it, working with professors in Women’s Studies for course reserves and struggling with book classification. Having pursued a women’s studies minor and paying attention to the development of LGBT studies on campus has helped with this.

00:40:42	[no question] She discussed her and her partner’s activity developing the (initially) The United (now OutReach) library, especially with building the lesbian collection and decisions regarding whether to use Library of Congress classifications, etc. When they were close to burning out, Wayne Gathright took over management of the library after it moved to the new location.

00:43:42	Question: Involvement in Pride events? Answer: She’d not been involved in the organization or planning, but had attended some of the parades and Pride events. She told an anecdote about her disappointment the last time she’d attended the Magic picnic, and explained why she felt this way—how she’d realized that there didn’t need to be “establishments” in order to be comfortable with oneself in Madison.

00:50:48	Question: Was there a difference between being classified and academic staff? Answer: She said that there was, for better or worse, a difference and her role as library director was to determine when this was necessary or not. She’d not noticed a difference related to being LGBT.

00:53:11	[no question] Related to being an employee at UW, she noted the high level of campus participation by LGBT personnel in diversity for a, despite the disappointing fact that diversity discussions often centered solely around ethnic/racial minorities. She spent some time suggesting why racial minorities continue to be the focus, and how emotional an issue it had been for her in diversity meetings on campus.

01:01:35	[no question] She discussed the “emotional blow” of the passage of the 2006 WI constitution same-sex marriage ban referendum, feeling betrayed by the state; and discussed her consideration of getting a job elsewhere.

01:03:52	Question: Academic staff governance? Answer: She’d served on the several committees, including CASI and the Librarians’ Assembly, which had been a model for CASI. She also talked about being on the University Libraries Committee of the Faculty Senate, and attending (but not participating) in Senate meetings.

01:07:17	[no question] Wrap-up. Scheduling a next meeting.

01:08:44	End of First Interview Session

First Interview Session (July 30, 2010): Digital File

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:24	Question: Your commitment ceremony? Answer: She observed that she and her partner Ellen had a commitment ceremony in 1994, when it seemed like “something to do at the time.” Briefly explaining the cultural atmosphere around the phrase “commitment ceremony” in the US at the time and also her own understanding of marriage from her upbringing in a progressive liberal Methodist household, she emphasized the dividing line between the “ceremony” and the legal act of marriage.

00:06:11	[no question] She continued to narrate her commitment ceremony, which she and her partner had officiated by her father to publicly proclaim their lifetime commitment to one another. They said their vows in private, invited their friends and many family members, and had a whole weekend of events, including getting a city of Madison marriage registration.

00:10:37	[no question] She outlined the way becoming domestic partners officially had changed their lives financially and personally.  Some of this issued from her understanding about the legal status of marriage, and included joining their finances, buying a home and car together, etc. She was happy that this was somewhat of a non-issue for people and businesses in Madison.

00:13:26	[no question] She talked a bit about the ceremony itself and the rainbow-themed decorations (before this had become widespread), emphasizing their desire to support LGBT or women’s businesses in the process. The ceremony was at her parent’s home and they had a catered dinner at Apple Island.

00:18:48	[no question] She quipped about how they called the ceremony “the thing” since they didn’t like calling it a wedding or commitment ceremony. But they recognized the anniversary of this event and also of their first date.

00:21:03	Question: The amendment? Answer: She discussed the evolution of her feelings over time. At first, she didn’t feel that they needed marriage—that same-sex union was fine—but over time and with their commitment ceremony she became more attached to the idea. Part of this was legally “spelling things out” (that wouldn’t just naturally occur), and part was her emotional and intellectual commitment to feminism.

00:26:43	[no question] She described her political activism against the same-sex marriage ban, working on fundraising for Action Wisconsin (now Fair Wisconsin). She expressed her hope that within her lifetime same-sex marriage would be legalized throughout the US, despite her severe disappointment that the referendum passed. She compared shifting attitudes about same-sex marriages to the way inter-racial marriages were taboo in the 1960s but were accepted today.

00:32:10	Question: Games night? Answer: Kruse explained that games night started when she and a few friends realized that they enjoyed getting together to play board games. So they began by scheduling specific nights to play games, but it had gotten more spon-taneous over the last few years. The event tended to be lesbian and women, but occasionally men would show up. 

00:36:56	Follow up: Is this a substitution for not being “plugged into the community?” Answer: She observed that most of their friends were lesbians, so she felt they were plugged into a strong community of friends, but worried that newcomers would feel uncomfortable because of this. Follow up: Community and having only lesbian friends? Answer: She didn’t feel that there was one “lesbian community in Madison,” but thought that the shared experience made those friendships comfortable.

00:41:24	Question: GLSEN? Answer: She remarked that her involvement was primarily through Ellen’s activity as the GSAFE advisor at West High School. She recounted going to GSAFE banquets, which reminded her of the experience of gay and lesbian couples outside Madison in Wisconsin.

00:43:28	[no question] She related her understanding of the experience of gay and lesbian students in Madison’s high schools, emphasizing the uniqueness of West High, which is generally very accepting of kids’ self-expression. She was glad that Ellen could be out as a teacher and librarian at a school where she wasn’t afraid of students’ or parents’ reactions to her.

00:48:29	Follow up: Did you think about those fears for yourself here at UW? Answer: No; she tended to think of universities as more open-minded, though she did speak with her colleagues about whether or not it would be appropriate for her to share a hotel room with one of her female employees (and other similar situations).

00:52:28	Question: Anything else? Answer: Kruse shared that she’d thought a lot about what her role had or hadn’t been with activism since their last interview. Though she’d not been an organizer, she considered herself to be political active by voting, going to demonstrations, frequenting businesses that support the LGBT community, etc. 

00:58:16	End of First Interview Session

End of Oral History #1094