UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1045
ENGLESBY, JOHN H.

Englesby, John H. (1942- )
UW Undergraduate Student (Elementary Education), UW Masters Degree (Educational Technology), UW PhD (Curriculum Instruction, with a minor in Educational Technology)
At UW: 1961-1964, 1965-1987 (not continuous years – by course, in addition to job)

Interviewed: 2009 (7/30 & 8/3)
Interviewer: Gisela Newbegin
Index by: Gisela Newbegin
Length: 1 hour, 28 minutes

	Abstract (all sessions): In his two July/August 2009 interviews with Gisela Newbegin, 	John H. Englesby discussed his life, and his interest in history. Englesby spoke about his 	life period from1942 up to the present (2009), and included discussing his education, his 	career and his community involvement since retiring. This interview was conducted for 	inclusion into the UW-Madison Oral History Program.

	Keywords (all sessions): Becker, Ann; Caldwell, Agnes E.; Caldwell, William; Chase, 	Fred and Helen; Dane County Library Board; DeForest Area Businessmen’s Association; 	DeForest Area Chamber of Commerce; DeForest Area Public Library; DeForest Area 	School District; DeForest Area Senior Center; DeForest Downtown Redevelopment 	Authority (DRA); DMB Community Bank; Englesby, Keith Caldwell; Englesby, Rex H.; 	Ethun, 	Rolf; Knudtson, Beatrice; Lyster, Adeline; McLaughlin, Elmer; Morrison, James;  	Mulvey, Claire; Morrisonville Depot Restoration Committee; NDE (loan program); 	Northside Elementary School; Norway Grove Lutheran Church; Royal Oaks Elementary 	School; United in Christ Church; Village of DeForest; Weinlick, Anna; Windsor 	Township School.

First Interview Session (July 30, 2009): Digital File

00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:52	Question: What was it like growing up in the area? What was the town like and how has it changed? Answer: Englesby noted Morrisonville was settled by James Morrison at the time of the railroads. His grandfather lived on a farm in the rural area and then built a home in 1910 in Morrisonville. His mother [Agnes E. Caldwell] was brought up there. He was born in 1942. His father [Rex H. Englesby] was principal of the DeForest High School. His mother had been a rural schoolteacher. He attended the Morrisonville Graded School, which was right next to their home. His grandfather, William Caldwell, had been on the school board that designed the building, which is still standing in Morrisonville. He had a typical childhood. Mom was a stay-at-home mom. Their home was next to the school so there was a lot of play on the school ground, and it included using the ball diamonds and all of the equipment and the playground equipment. There were hot lunches (but not fancy ones) at the school, but they always went home for lunch, which is not typical these days. He went to that school for eight grades and felt it was an interesting and positive experience. Because he turned out to be an elementary teacher, he was often asked in college courses about how he was taught reading and geography. In those classes, they talked about reading groups and the advantages and disadvantages of them. He didn’t remember, but did remember the social things: the plays at Christmas, the music programs and the picnics. He did remember his eighth grade graduation. It was a big deal, had a stage in the school. Then he started riding the bus to the DeForest High School and attended there for four years. DeForest High School took in all of the rural areas including Morrisonville. In high school he became a more serious student and more concerned about grades. He was not particularly social, a little bit of a nerd. He did play in the band, was on the local newspaper staff and the annual [now called yearbook] staff. He graduated from high school in 1961. 

04:17	[No question.] He went to college as an undergrad for one year at Platteville State. His older brother was in the engineering school. Englesby then transferred to UW-Madison for two reasons: one was financial. His father had a stroke and was no longer earning money, mom was at home taking care of him, and it helped for him to pay his tuition and book fees, and to stay at home and to be helpful there. He received his BS in elementary education from UW-Madison in 1964. He had done his practice teaching at Sun Prairie Northside School. His first job in education was at that school. He taught in Sun Prairie for his entire career. He taught about 12 years at 6th grade level at Northside School; the rest was at Royal Oaks School. His last two years were in administration: one year as interim curriculum coordinator, and the last year as school principal at Royal Oaks School. He stated he was glad he had the administrative experience but doubly glad he had decided to be a teacher instead. He loved working with the people in the different buildings, but discovered 80% of administration is problem solving and much of it was negative, with parents, children and school board. During the time he was teaching in Sun Prairie, he got two more degrees: in 1968, a Masters degree in educational technology, and in 1982, a PhD in curriculum instruction with a minor in educational technology. His focus was always in curriculum, instruction and in teaching. 

07:04	Question: Transitions with the Morrisonville area? Answer: Back in the 1870s there were 3 small communities built in conjunction with the building of the railroad between Madison and Portage: Morrisonville, DeForest, and Windsor. At that time, Morrisonville was the more thriving. It was a huge town that took in tobacco for the railroad, and other farmers’ crops, and brought in lots of goods and had a bank and several stores. It all changed in 1895 when the Windsor Township High School was built in DeForest because it was centralized. Since then, both Morrisonville and Windsor have steadily declined in population. Question: Was it better growing up in the area then rather than now? Answer: Maybe not better, but very different, perhaps less problematic in terms of some of the problems people deal with now. Doors were never locked then, not at home or at church. Kids could be bike riding all day, having picnics in the woods, and it wasn’t a problem. It was more simplistic then and more challenging now. Question: Did the building of the Interstate so close to the area have an impact? Answer: The interstate cut through the family farm. And the traffic now is problematic.

11:12	Question: Special memories of elementary school? Answer: Englesby noted the plays, the things they did at recess, and special programs. Englesby remembered his grandfather’s beautiful horse barn, the plays they used to put on in the barn, and playing in the barn. His brother [Keith Caldwell Englesby] had a basketball court in the hay mound in the upper level. Lots of things went on in their yard after school. Question: Did other kids in the area come and play there? Answer: Yes, they did. Especially with the basketball court. His brother was into basketball and the 8th grade team practiced at the barn. The barn was used so much the floorboards were worn away. Question:  Special memories of high school? Answer: Extracurricular activities. Englesby was on newspaper staff, the annual [a.k.a. yearbook], and in band. He played saxophone and discussed band eliminations, the marching band, concert band, band instructor Elmer McLaughlin, band episode at Chicago hotel, band outfits. Question: Favorite teachers? Answer:  His history and social studies teacher, Claire Mulvey. He got to know her very well after he became a teacher and became active in the local historical society. Mulvey was a one of the founders. Elmer McLaughlin was another favorite teacher. Mulvey started a local study club, still going now. Question: High school bonfires? Answer: Not much recollection. He talked a little about the homecoming parades and that the bonfires might have been done in a park or behind the school.

17:05	Question: What do you miss most about area back then? Answer: Englesby believes it was a simpler time then, people knew everyone, not as fast paced. He related that when he was younger, parents took their kids to swimming classes, but his family did not because of the polio scare then. Family vacation was a big thing for him. The smell of putting gas in his mower brings back vacation memories of fishing for him. He has 25 slide carousels of vacation pictures. Question: What was it like going through the polio scare in a small community? Answer: One of his cousins had an extreme case of polio and he related how it was treated.

20:52	Question: Any special memories of the UW? Answer: Englesby said his memories were mainly about curriculum, had lived at home and not on campus very much. Question: Any special professors? Answer:  Yes, his major professor, Ann Becker. He mentioned remembering the riots and Sterling Hall bombing, but did not identify with it. He vaguely remembers tear gas, but reads about it all now with great interest. Question: Did you know that Karlton [Armstrong]’s family lived in the area? Answer: Englesby said he did not know them. 

22:50	Question: Why did you choose the education field? Answer: Both of his parents were teachers: father was an industrial arts teacher and then a high school principal; mother was a musical ed. teacher. Englesby said he never thought of doing anything else. He discussed his education at Platteville State and the UW-Madison. Question: Ever think of teaching older grades? Answer: Initially yes. He talked about teaching all ages, including adults. While going for his PhD, he was a TA for Ann Becker and for his minor professor, and taught two different courses. After getting his PhD, instead of teaching college, he chose to go back to Sun Prairie public schools. Question: Why did you choose that instead of teaching adults? Answer: Too many unknowns, didn’t want to move out of area, really liked working with elementary students.

26:24	Question: What other area of education might you have gone into? Answer: While teaching in Sun Prairie, he also took on the added job of social studies curriculum coordinator for grades K-8 teachers. He got interested in area of history and social studies, and started affiliating with the State Historical Society and served on the Executive Board, for the Council for Local History for many years. He became familiar with what was being done statewide in local history. Then joined the DeForest Area Historical Society and got on that board, became the treasurer and then president and is still president. Englesby talked about the DeForest Area Historical Society.

28:07	Question: Favorite memories of vacations as an adult? Answer: He talked about his vacations and how they related to his interest in history. Trips were with other teachers and were educational. Took trips to Europe for ten years. Favorite trip was his Greek Island cruise. The trips really crystallized his great interest in history. He talked about his trips in the U.S., including Colonial Williamsburg. Question: Did you take the trips because you wanted to see the historical aspects? Answer: Mainly yes. Never for the shows, games or food but that every day would be in a different site of historical interest. Has great memories and many photos and notebooks from those years. Question: Perhaps do a program on the trips and memories? Answer: He mentioned a project he’d like to do for the DeForest Area Historical Society and also do his family history project. He mentioned the growing collection of family histories that are in the Historical Society, and the detailed work of some of them, such as written dialogs and histories of people in photographs.

33:07	Question: You are involved with many organizations and committees with many meetings. You didn’t like meetings when you were in administration. Has that changed? Answer: 
Now it is by choice. Administrative meetings are different. Has been on local library board for over 30 years. Recently became member of Dane County Library Board. Has served on Local Council for History as an adjunct of the state, no longer involved with that. Now on DeForest Area Foundation Board. And very involved in his local church, United in Christ Lutheran in Morrisonville, is on music committee, not on a board, but plays organ for the church. 

35:54	Question: History of DeForest Area Historical Society? Answer: Began in the 1970s by small local group of people, before he was involved. Claire Mulvey and Rolf Ethun, a school friend of John, were part of the group. It began in homes, became incorporated, and started collecting things. A building on East Elm Street was donated to them by the Ethun family, now known as the Hansen-Newell-Bennett House. In late 1990s, the society was approached about being housed in the new DeForest Library building. They now have a space in the Library. About the same time, the DeForest Downtown Redevelopment Authority had another downtown building, the Adeline Lyster House, for the Historical Society. Fred Chase donated some land along the railroad tracks to the Historical Society as a site for the Lyster House. The land also included the old DeForest train depot, built in 1872. The Historical Society then had four buildings. The local bank [DMB Community Bank] gave the Society a grant to help restore the depot. In addition, an area family [Fred and Helen Chase] gave an estate gift to help restore the depot to the 1930s. The DeForest Area Chamber of Commerce now has its office in the Lyster House. Question: Did the new buildings help in getting more membership, volunteers? Answer: It depends on definition of membership. There is a large mailing list, and a large group of people who support the Historical Society and their mission. There are volunteers at the library site every Tuesday and Thursday. And many people give things to the Society. Many people come and request things from the Society. The Historical Society is run all by volunteers. 

42:05	Question: Relationship with other historical societies? Answer: With the Dane County Historical Society, located in Madison. They do not have a museum, but have only Dane County manuscripts. They sometimes have meetings at different area historical societies and include all the Dane County area historical societies. DeForest is also affiliated with the State Historical Society, mainly for help and advice, nothing financial. They also have regional meetings and workshops available. Question: Partnerships? Answer: Yes, with the DeForest Area School District, DeForest Area Public Library, DeForest Area Chamber of Commerce, and DeForest Area Senior Center. 

44:05	Question: Area Railroad and Depots? Answer: Windsor, DeForest, Morrisonville each had own depot. Railroad from Madison to Portage is an historical line. Morrisonville Depot is more historically significant because it was never changed. Englesby is on the Morrisonville Depot Restoration Committee. They hope to move the depot closer to more accessible highway and rebuild it. The DeForest Depot was still mostly intact and just needed to be restored. Possible fast rail through area is exciting news. Question: The Windsor Depot? Answer: It’s still standing but not in Windsor. May have been built by same carpenters as the DeForest one, is structurally similar. In the 30s, railroad service to Windsor diminished and the DeForest Area Businessmen’s Association bought the depot and had it moved to the DeForest Fireman’s Park, and is still there. 
Some Windsor people were not happy about that. Question: Does Historical Society have anything to do with that depot? Answer: No, it’s owned by Village of DeForest and used as concession stand. Englesby has done an article about the three depots. DeForest Depot is post and beam construction, like Windsor’s.

48:47	Question: Your newspaper articles and book? Answer: Did many articles about area rural schools. Interviewed people from each school and their memories were similar; their lunches, school picnic, the Christmas party, the strict discipline, recess fun. Archives were really built up then. Had many documented photos, many school records and bells donated. Even inspired some school reunions to happen. The first floor of the Hansen-Newell-Bennett house has been restored to 1915-1920s; the second floor has a schoolroom as a display. Englesby described the displays in further detail. Talked about school kids then and today.

52:40	Question: Original DeForest High School on Holum Street? Answer: Is now Holum Administration Center. First high school built in 1895; the Windsor Township High School was built close to there, on the noll. In 1924, more space was needed and a more modern school was needed, then the red brick school was built right next door so that classes never stopped. The old school was there until the new school was built. In 1956, added on to the building. In 1969, a new high school was built in different location in DeForest. Then the 1924 part of the old school was razed, but the 1956 part was kept. Was controversial. The 1956 part is now the Holum Center. Englesby noted that was the school his class did their plays in, on the big stage in the big gymnasium. Question: Name of 1924 school? Answer: Name had changed earlier, in 1916 or 1917, to DeForest Union Free School. Was also controversial. The name changes create problems with archiving. Question: School bell in front of HolumCenter? Answer: Englesby thinks bell is from Windsor Township School. DeForest Historical Society, and Claire Mulvey, were involved with bell. 

57:40	Question: Red Gym and registration at UW? Answer: The historical buildings and architecture at the UW are positive memories for him. Very excited about the restoration at the Education Building. The registration process, the assignment committees, for him were the most negative memories of school on campus. Won’t not miss the Humanities Building when it’s gone.

01:00:58	Question: Football games? Answer: Only game he saw was about 6 years ago while doing concessions for the Morrisonville Depot Restoration Committee.

01:02:05	Question: Anything you’d like to add now? Answer: Englesby feels very fortunate that he was able to get undergrad degree at the cost he did. Lived at home, tuition was under $100. As an undergrad, finances were a challenge for family. Father had stroke, mother didn’t work. Never knew until later the sacrifices his parents made for him. He was fortunate to have NDE loan, National Defense Education loan. Was a federal loan you could get in education, with a promise to pay it back when you had a viable occupation. Could pay it back for half the amount you received. He paid about $40 a month. With that loan, living at home and living simply, he got his undergrad degree. Graduate school was done while working.

01:05:25	End of First Interview Session	

Second Interview Session (August 3, 2009): Digital File

00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:28	Question: What do you remember about high school and college graduation? Answer: Remembers them all. Eighth grade was very special, eight of them on the stage getting special attention, lilacs around, teacher Anna Weinlick. Knows about high school graduation, the year, the location, but doesn’t have romanticized vision of it like his 8th grade graduation. Remembers college graduation because it was difficult time for his family. Father was very ill. Mother was there. Remembers ceremony for his PhD a little better. 

02:04	Question: Three people in history admire & why? Answer:  George Washington: had extreme fortitude, didn’t want to be president, admired & respected by many. Abraham Lincoln:
difficult time in history. Has been to Springfield many times. Amazed at what he went through, had tremendous insight. For a third, he’d say musicians through history category: loves Beethoven, Brahms, other great composers. He’s much more interested in that now, goes to symphony & operas and delves into the history of the composers. Question: Did you learn to play piano from your mom? Answer: Yes, started in 2nd grade for about 2 years, then took lessons from Beatrice Knudtson. She also played organ at Norway Grove Lutheran Church. He took lessons through 8th grade. Was good foundation for high school band, played tenor sax, learned to read music. Has taken music classes, including two from the UW: “The Appreciation of Symphony”, & “The Appreciation of Opera”, very valuable classes for him. Has been very interested in symphony and opera Still plays piano, it’s fun and relaxing. 

06:03	Question: Favorite family tradition? Answer: Family was never big on parties. What he cherished most was the annual family vacation up north, were very simple vacations. Was probably what parents could afford. 

08:10	Question: Have you changed during your life? How? Answer: Am very liberal in politics. Maybe more conservative than before in what he values most: set goals for self and try to do good things for the community, and then follow through on them and meet the expectations that others have of you. While teaching, tried to teach kids to be responsible for their work, keeping their desk clean and getting work done on time. Have come to appreciate values learned from parents more as he got older. Question: What things are important to you now? Answer: volunteer work, family, community service, interest in music and history. Question: Do you have family reunions? Answer:  Yes, just on the one side. It’s interesting and sad. Father was from northern Wisconsin. Knew his side of the family, but were never involved with any Englesby reunions. Family was closer to mother’s side of the family, lived several years with grandfather Caldwell in Morrisonville. That was the house Englesby grew up in. Mother’s sister and brothers were close, so he is close to those cousins. 

10:48	Question: Would you have done anything different in your life? Answer: Probably not. Has questioned decision to stay at elementary school after getting PhD. Wonders what could have happened had he gone into teaching at college level.

11:51	Question: Most important person(s) in your life? Answer: Parents, for giving him standards and values, models for teaching. Appreciates it more as an adult.

12:43	Question: List of involvements? Answer: Has been on Dane County Library Board for about a year. Has been fascinating, budgets are always a challenge. Is Secretary of Dane County Library Board. Has been on Dane County Cultural Affairs Grant Advisory Panel. Was a reader for local history grants for about 3 or 4 years. Was there while Lynne Eich was the Director. She retired a few years ago. DeForest Area Historical Society also wrote and received grants from them. Is on the DeForest Area Foundation now. Has written almost monthly columns for the local paper. Very time consuming and there has been turnover at the paper. The pictures in the paper seem to be popular. Englesby talked about the Historical Society gallery displays. Always tries to have things for children included in displays. He mentioned that for several years he had been on the Executive Committee for Wisconsin Council for Local History. It was affiliated with the State Historical Society, and organized and supported local history statewide. Had conventions. Was very motivating. People from all over the state can call and get ideas about how to archive materials and more

21:06	Question: Anything else you would like to bring up? Answer: Has enjoyed the experience and is not used to the attention. Wants to mention the many partnerships the historical society has. [In 2006, Englesby was inducted into the DeForest Area School District’s “Walk of Honor” for his contributions to the community.]

23:18	End of Second Interview/End of Oral History

Addendum:
On August 5, 2009, Mr. Englesby emailed the following he wanted to add to the interview:
“[About the DeForest Area Public] Library building project:   It was a pleasure to serve as the President of the Library Board at the time that the building was planned.  I was pleased that I was retired so that I could devote time to the many meetings that were held on site, as well as in Madison.  It was great experience to work with the architects and interior decorators.  I especially appreciated the opportunity to work with these people as we planned the historical society area.  It has all worked out beautifully--and seems to be a model for many local historians who visit.”

On August 6, 2009, Mr. Englesby sent the following to also be added to the interview:
“Advice to young people:
Follow your passions with regard to vocation, leisure, and hobbies. Set goals and high standards for yourself, work hard, and always focus upon integrity.”