UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #825
INGWERSEN, NIELS

INGWERSEN, NIELS (1935- )
Professor Emeritus of Scandinavian Studies
At UW: 1965-2004

Interviewed: 2006	
Interviewer: Robert Lange
Index by: Rob Rabe
Length: 4 hours, 58 minutes

Abstract: Childhood and early years in Denmark; German occupation during World War II; education in public schools and gymnasium, University of Copenhagen; study of literature and poetry; graduate study at the University of Chicago; impressions of American  culture; teaching in Denmark; hiring by UW Department of Scandinavian Studies; teaching and research; the student protest years; department chairmanship; the John Brinkman tenure case; the Folklore Program; editorship of Scandinavian Studies; relationship with university administration; graduate students; post-retirement projects.

Interview Session 1 (October 31, 2006): Tapes 1-2

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:30	Niels Ingwersen was born in 1935 in a small town in Denmark.  His father was a truck driver and his mother stayed at home.  He has few memories of his early childhood.  The family had a small cabin near the ocean.  He recalls the hearing the news that WWII had started in 1939.

00:02:03	He talks about his memories of the German invasion of Denmark.  The Nazis occupied the nation from 1940 to 1945.  Ingwersen attended elementary school during the occupation.  Due to the war, students only went to school for two hours every other day.  The sound of airplanes, gunshots, explosions.  He doesn’t remember feeling frightened.  He talks about the German soldiers and the Danish resistance.

00:04:36	NI discusses some of his experiences in elementary school during the war.  Learning about the Old Testament.  His favorite teacher was a member of the resistance and was arrested by the Nazis.

00:06:10	He talks about his family experiences during the war.  His grandfather lived in occupied Austria.  Listening to the BBC broadcasts in Danish.  Rumors about the course of the war. The occupation ended on May 4, 1945.  He talks about the euphoria and celebrations that broke out for days after the Nazis left.

00:09:28	NI discusses people’s awareness of the removal of Danish Jews during the war.  The resistance and sabotage.  German exploitation of Danish agriculture and food rationing.  Coal shortages.  Black markets.

00:13:45	NI shares his thoughts on the influence of the Depression and the war on his later life.  

00:15:33	Ingwersen talks about his education in Denmark.  He always loved reading and his parents pushed him to follow the academic track in school.  He talks about the different tracks for students in the Danish education system.  He chose to attend gymnasium and began preparing for a career in engineering.  Studying math and science.

00:17:25	He talks about his discovery of American literature, which fascinated him and made him think about studying literature and poetry.  He switched to the humanities and entered the university in 1954.  He explains why he chose to attend the University of Copenhagen.  City life.  

00:20:03	NI discusses the “old fashioned” nature of the university curriculum.  Language studies.  He talks about the welfare system and funding for graduate studies.

00:21:51	He talks about winning a grant to live and study in “King’s College” in Copenhagen.  Student clubs.  Learning to enjoy classical music.  He talks about the social and intellectual activities in the clubs, which were often more enjoyable than classes at the university.

00:23:55	Ingwersen talks about contemporary student culture and discussion of politics and intellectual topics.  

00:25:00	He spent a semester in Stockholm.  His first exposure to American literary criticism.  He talks about another trip to Oslo, Norway, during which he worked on his dissertation.  He met his future wife, who was from Wyoming, in a class for foreign students in Oslo.

00:28:00	He discusses the similarities among the Danish, Swedish and Norwegian languages.   Writing his thesis.  He applied to study at the University of Chicago.  He sailed across the Atlantic and began studies in 1961.  He talks about seeing the New York skyline for the first time from the ship.

00:31:07	End of Side.

Tape 1/ Side 2

00:31:16	Ingwersen continues to discuss his arrival in New York in 1961.  Travel to Chicago to begin studies at the University of Chicago.  Initial impressions of the city.  Travel to Wyoming.

00:35:34	He discusses the housing shortage in Europe after the war and their difficulties getting married.  They got married shortly before leaving for the United States.  Honeymoon travels in the American west.

00:37:02	NI talks about his initial impressions of the western United States.  He discusses his liberal democrat political beliefs and American conservatism of the 1950s.  The benefits of the Danish welfare system.  

00:39:29	He talks about getting a driver’s license and his first car.  Travels.  He points out that he will never fully understand American culture, despite his fascination and experiences with it.  His Danish roots and language skills.

00:42:45	Ingwersen talks about how family and friends reacted to his move to America.  Many wanted him to return.  He became an American citizen in 2005 and has no plans to return there to live.

00:45:30	He and his wife finished their Ph.D. prelims during their first year at the University of Chicago.  He recounts his first visit to Wisconsin.

00:46:45	They returned to Denmark after a year.  Their tiny apartment in Copenhagen.  

00:48:05	Ingwersen was drafted into the army and served for 16 months.  Military training in the Signal Corps and the army experience.

00:52:10	He discusses his experiences at the time of the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963.  The Cold War and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

00:54:39	NI explains how he returned to teacher’s training after his military service ended.  Teachers have to get experience in high schools before continuing their academic careers.  He initially disliked teaching.  He recounts some of his early experiences in the classroom.

00:58:01	He discusses his early dislike of Hans Christian Andersen’s writing.  The place of Andersen in Danish culture of the 1960s.

01:00:53	NI talks about his plans to continue teaching and his interest in teaching at an American university.  He explains how he was contacted by Prof. Harold Naase about a teaching position at UW around Christmas, 1964.

01:01:54	End of Side.  End of Tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:02:03	Ingwersen continues to discuss the events that led to his hiring by UW.  He enjoyed his teaching job in Copenhagen, but understood that the opportunity to teach at UW was hard to decline.  He initially thought he might return to Denmark after a few years.

01:05:40	NI talks about his excitement about moving to America to teach.  American literature and culture.  New approaches to criticism.  He compares the teacher’s classroom experiences in the UW and Scandinavia.

01:07:35	He compares the difficulty of higher education in Europe and the US.  He believes that the European system was much more difficult when he was in school.  

01:09:09	Ingwersen talks about their move to Madison.  They arrived here in August 1965 and lived in university housing.  He talks about the department offices and the important assistance he got from the department secretary.  

01:11:45	He lists some of the courses that he taught during his first years on the faculty.  He had a very heavy teaching load and no TA.  First year Danish was his favorite course at the time.  He explains why teaching the initial stages of a foreign language is the most fun.

01:14:30	Ingwersen talks about his working relationship with the other members of the faculty in the early years.  He describes it as a “one-person” department through the 1950s.  Expansion in the department in the 50s and 60s.  He compares the Scandinavian Studies departments of UW and the University of Minnesota.

01:17:45	He discusses his first course in Scandinavian literature.  His insecurity as a lecturer.  He talks about how he switched from formal, written lectures to outlines and extemporaneous lectures. 

01:20:44	He talks about the lack of mentoring from older faculty.  His friendship with the department chair.  Friendship with graduate students.

01:23:30	NI discusses his creation of a literature course for graduate students that he taught in his 2nd year. 

01:25:03	Ingwersen talks about the student protest years and the cultural unrest in the late 1960s.  Some radical students were drawn to Scandinavian Studies because of their interest in the social welfare system or their intent to move there to avoid the draft.  He talks about his own feelings about the war and other issues of the time.  He discusses how his experiences during WWII affected his thoughts about the Vietnam War.  He and his wife took part in the anti-war marches and other activities.

01:30:10	He talks about serving on ad hoc faculty committees formed to support certain positions.  He also started publishing his research during his 2nd year on campus.  Going through the tenure process.

01:31:58	NI discusses the difficulty of writing academic papers in English.  

01:32:40	End of Side.

Tape 2/Side 2

01:32:45	Ingwersen continues to discuss his writing and teaching in his early career.  Teaching graduate students.  Teaching Assistants.

01:33:40	He talks about going through tenure. William Kiekhofer teaching award (1969).  WSA teaching award.

01:35:36	He discusses his consideration of taking a job back in Denmark.  He was offered a one year position as a Research Associate at the University of Odense (1971-72).  He talks about spending an enjoyable year in Denmark.

01:37:44	Ingwersen talks about teaching a course on Scandinavian literature of the 1890s.  His mother passed away during this year in Denmark.  He talks about the difficulty of deciding whether to stay or return to UW.

01:40:15	NI talks about the negative influence of Marxism on academic culture and research.  Dogmatism versus intellectual curiosity. 

01:43:38	He describes his reluctance to leave his Danish homeland.  He assesses some of the gains and losses related to his final move to the United States.  The pluralism of American culture and the possibilities of higher education.

01:47:22	He talks about his enjoyment of watching students grow and evolve while they are at the UW.  The importance of the “intellectual milieu” and academic exchange.

01:51:55	He talks about returning to UW during the worst of the student protest years.  The Sterling Hall bombing occurred while he was in Denmark.  He discusses the different kinds of students who were involved in protest movements.

01:54:37	Ingwersen knew the Robert Fassnacht, the graduate student who was killed in the Sterling Hall bombing.  He also knew the student’s wife, Stephanie, who had been in Ingwersen’s class.  

01:56:16	NI talks about serving as a lecturer for the American-Scandinavian Foundation in the early 1970s.  He traveled to various cities in the United States to talk about Scandinavian culture.

01:54:23	He talks about his consideration a job offer from the University of Washington in the early 1970s.  He does not regret staying at UW.

02:01:52	Ingwersen assesses the Scandinavian Studies department in the 1970s.  He describes the faculty as “young,” but productive.  The undergraduate enrollment expanded significantly during the 1970s.

02:02:44	End of Side.  End of Tape.

Interview Session 2 (November 1, 2006): Tapes 3-4

00:00:19	Ingwersen continues to discuss changes in the department in the 1970s.  He explain the events that led to his being named chair of the department.  He was concerned about taking time from his research and writing to attend to administrative duties.  He talks about the demands of the position.  His department still maintained a 3-course per semester teaching load in the 1970s and the chair rarely took a reduced teaching schedule.

00:04:32	He talks about the problem of balancing time between teaching and administration.  Making painful budget cuts mandated from above.

00:07:05	NI outlines changes in the department’s requirements for making tenure.  He talks writing his first book on Martin A. Hanson, which was co-written with his wife Faith and published in 1976.  The research and writing took place while he was department chair.

00:08:54	Ingwersen talks about the Danish author Martin Hanson. 

00:15:00 	He talks about the “taxing” nature of researching and writing the book.  He and his wife worked for more than 2 years on the manuscript.  They were very happy with the finished product.  It was only published in English, but Danish scholars have read it.

00:16:10	Ingwersen talks about the major administrative issues of his first tenure as chair.  Budget cuts.  Teaching assignments and TA allocation.  His relationship with the Dean’s office.  David Cronon.

00:17:19	NI talks about his desire to reconnect with his Danish roots.  After stepping down as department chair in 1978, he arranged to spend a teach at the University of Aarhus.  He found himself losing touch with Danish culture and politics and felt the need to spend time there.

00:19:57	He discusses his “green card” status in the US and his Danish citizenship.  He spent approximately one year at the University of Aarhus.  He discusses the two courses he taught there.  The waning of Marxist dogma in Danish education.

00:21:40	NI talks about the decline of Danish higher education since the 1960s as demands were lowered and education became more like American high school.  He talks about his father and his younger brother, who is a mechanic in Denmark.  The role of luck and chance in life.

00:24:42	He discusses his European travels.  

00:25:33	Ingwersen returned to UW to teach in 1980.  Pressure to begin teaching the work of Hans Christian Andersen.  Enrollment trends and teaching assignments.  He talks about the continual shortage of funding for graduate students in the department.

00:29:53	End of Side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:30:08	Niels Ingwersen continues to talk about pressures within the department in the early 1980s.  He talks about the writing of Hans Christian Andersen and deciding how to teach Andersen’s work.  His lack of interest in authors’ private lives.  

00:31:58	He talks about the growth of the Andersen course and the challenge of teaching the lecture portion of the class.  Teaching to a large class is “exhilarating” but he also enjoys teaching small groups.  The excitement of teaching great works of art.

00:33:53	He talks about some of Andersen’s most compelling stories.  Preparation for lectures.  He explains the course requirements for the large lecture classes.  Exams and writing assignments.

00:37:10	He continues to discuss the problems of teaching an extremely large class.  Oversight of a large staff of teaching assistants.

00:40:28	He talks about teaching 3-week summer school sessions.  He enjoyed teaching these sessions because the class size was smaller.  

00:41:08	Ingwersen discusses the continued interest in Andersen’s writing.  He talks about being asked to come guest lecture after his retirement.

00:44:10	NI lists some of the other courses he taught in the department in the 1980s.  Cross-listed courses with Religious Studies and Philosophy.

00:46:50	He assesses changes in the undergraduate student body during the approximately 40 years that he was at UW.  The “indifferent” students.  He believes that writing skills have declined.  He is not impressed, even though UW is supposed to attract the best of the best from high schools.

00:50:00	He suggests that high school English classes are failing to adequately prepare students as skilled writers.

00:51:12	Ingwersen talks about his experiences as an outside evaluator of other university Scandinavian departments.  He believes that the UW program compares very favorably to any other similar program.   He talks about “gaps” that occur when someone on the faculty takes leave or a position goes unfilled.  The large size of some undergraduate courses.

00:53:30	He talks about some colleagues from the department.  The faculty often disagrees about issues, but they are very congenial and friendly.  The quality of the teaching assistants and outside lecturers.

00:55:27	Ingwersen compares the UW Scandinavian Studies department with other departments around the nation.  The University of California at Berkeley is the major rival of UW.

00:56:40	He talks about the increase in interest in Scandinavian Studies as an undergraduate major.  He feels that the graduate program remains strong, but is too big because there are not many jobs open for Ph.D. holders in the field.  He talks about the various career paths that department graduates take in later life.

00:59:11	End of Side.  End of Tape.

Tape 4/Side 1

00:59:38	Ingwersen talks about his relationship with Tom Loftus, former Speaker of the State Assembly and Ambassador to Norway during the Clinton Administration.  Finding a tutor to help Loftus refine his Norwegian language skill.

01:00:34	NI talks about the department’s relationship with Scandinavian populations in Wisconsin.  He points out that there are many more Swedes and Norwegians than Danes in the state.  He occasionally has traveled to Stoughton and other places to give talks about folklore and Andersen.

01:02:30	Ingwersen discusses patterns of Danish immigration in the United States.  Many settled in Nebraska and there are some communities in the west.  They tend to diffuse and there are not that many heavily Danish towns in the US.  Danes did not leave home at the same rates as other Scandinavians.  

01:04:13 	Ingwersen talks about the department’s relationship with the Dean’s office over the years. The role of the department chair. Variations in the ability of the Deans. 

01:05:17	He talks about the tenure case of Prof. John Brinkman in the Comp Lit department in the early 1980s.  He talks about the Comparative Literature department faculty, which were internally divided and contentious.  Dean Cronon decided not to grant tenure, despite the favorable recommendations from the faculty committee.

01:12:11	He talks about how Brinkman’s denial of tenure affected faculty in other departments.  Many professors in language and literary studies were concerned and angered by the decision and worried about its effect on faculty governance.  At least 150 members of the humanities faculty signed a letter of support for Brinkman and in support of faculty governance.

01:17:24	Ingwersen talks about his leadership on a faculty committee that addresses these concerns on faculty rights and responsibilities and other activities on behalf of the faculty.  He explains how the situation with Brinkman was resolved and Brinkman’s departure from campus.

01:21:53	He points out that his advocacy for faculty issues has not adversely affected his relationship with the Deans or the UW administration.  

01:23:36	He discusses his respect for the freedom and autonomy normally enjoyed by members of the UW faculty and explains why be got so deeply involved with the Brinkman case.

01:25:30	NI discusses Dean Cronon’s tenure and his legacy.

01:26:14	Ingwersen was offered a one-year position at UCLA during the 1982-83 academic year.  He discusses the factors that he considered when decided whether or not to accept the offer.  His vacancy would be a burden for the other members of the faculty.  Graduate students.

01:27:04	He decided to accept the position.  He talks about his teaching activities and life in southern California.  He compares the students at UCLA and UW.  

01:30:25	End of Side.

Tape 4/Side 2

01:30:31	Ingwersen continues to talk about the year he spent teaching at UCLA.  He also gave invited lectures on other campuses.  Travels in the western US and Mexico.  He talks about the temptation to take a permanent position in California.  	

Interview Session 3 (November 6, 2006): Tapes 4-5

00:00:14	Ingwersen talks about his career at UW after his return from his one year appointment at UCLA.  His increasing interest in folklore studies.  He talks about a new course called The Scandinavian Tale and Ballad that he developed in the 1980s.

00:01:10	He discusses conversations that he had with members of the faculty in other departments to start a new program in folklore studies.  They got permission from Dean Cronon and had to go through a probationary period.  The difficulty of starting a new program.

00:02:59	Ingwersen became the chair of the folklore program from 1987 to 1989.  He also has published 8-9 articles on folklore and is currently working on a book.  A National Endowment for the Humanities grant helped fund the program.

00:04:12	He talks about the immediate popularity of the folklore classes among the undergrads. They started a folklore minor, and then a major, but there is no folklore department. He feels that there will eventually be a full-fledged folklore department at UW.

00:05:27	NI talks about his teaching in the Scandinavian Studies department in the 80s and 90s. He no longer taught languages, but instead focused on his literature courses.

00:06:45	He and his wife served as co-editors of the journal Scandinavian Studies between 1985 and 1990. He talks about the journal and the work of the editors. Finding reviewers to evaluate manuscript submissions.  

00:09:30	He talks about some of the scholars who were angry about editorial decisions they made.  His working relationship with his wife Faith.  They have written two books together, in addition to the work as co-editors of the journal.  He outlines some of the controversial material published in the journal.

00:15:05	NI discusses the difficulty of maintaining such a busy schedule.  He was teaching 3 courses per semester, chairing the new folklore program and editing the journal.  In retrospect, he realizes it was too much to do at one time.   He neglected a book project that he really wanted to complete.  His relief when they stepped down as journal editors in 1990.

00:16:11	He discusses changes in journal publishing when the process was computerized in the late 1980s.  Advantages and disadvantages to the use of computers.  He discusses the differences between writing on the typewriter and the computer.  E-mail and teaching.

00:19:50	Ingwersen became chair of the Scandinavian Studies Department for the second time from 1990-1993.  He talks about how computers made the work of the chair easier.

00:22:26	He uses the example of rumors about the elevators in Van Hise Hall to point out how folklore affects campus life.

00:24:50	He discusses the collegial nature of the department faculty and the relative lack of major problems during his second tenure as chair.  Problems with TA’s and other personnel issues.

00:26:21	Ingwersen talks about the current atmosphere in the department after his retirement and the departure of several other older scholars.

00:27:01	End of Side.  End of Tape.

Tape 5/Side 1

00:27:04	Ingwersen continues to discuss his second term as department chair in the early 1990s.  He found the experience easier because of his previous service.  He also had better relations with the Dean’s Office.  Efforts to reduce the 3/3 course load to 3/2 and eventually 2/2.

00:29:39	He explains why Sargent Bush, of the English Department, was his “favorite” dean.  The importance of the Associate Deans in dealing with the departments.

00:31:49	NI discusses the problem of infighting and competition among academics.  The divisiveness of some university departments.  

00:34:35	He talks about the department’s yearly Christmas party.  Department staff.

00:38:10	Ingwersen discusses Chancellors Donna Shalala and David Ward.  He points out that faculty normally have very little interaction with the Chancellor.  He feels that Shalala was good overall for the UW, but made some mistakes.  He was not surprised when she left.  He shares a few observations about David Ward.

00:43:50	He talks about the Republican orientation of many of the Regents during the 1990s and the difficulties that more liberal administrators faced in getting programs approved.

00:44:58	He talks about John Wiley’s “common touch.”  He feels that it is too early to accurately assess Wiley’s tenure as Chancellor.

00:46:38	NI talks about the role of honor societies in higher education.  He served as president of Phi Beta Kappa in 1999-2000.

00:48:25	He discusses his relationship with former students.  He talks about the banquet and other activities hosted by the department at his retirement.  He talks about being invited to give lectures, including events at the Library of Congress and Columbia University.  Careers of some former Ph.D. students.

00:52:30	He discusses the significance of the advisor/Ph.D. student relationship.  He explains how the department decided to accept Ph.D. students.  Academic competition dictates that the department only accept the most highly qualified students who will succeed in the field.  Qualification exams.

00:55:59	Ingwersen talks about the issue of financial assistance for graduate students.  Funding.  He feels that inadequate graduate student funding is one of the weakest aspects of the UW.  

00:57:06	He discusses the position of the humanities at UW.  He feels the humanities departments are “well regarded” by the administration.

00:58:15	End of Side.

Tape 5/Side 2

00:58:22	Ingwersen continues to talk about the status of the humanities at UW.  Faculty salaries have improved significantly.

00:59:24	He explains that the department worked to create large lecture classes for undergrads partly in order to generate TA and Reader positions.  The compensation of TA’s.

01:00:23	He talks about the UW sabbatical program.  There is some good support for young scholars to take summers off.  Sabbaticals for more senior scholars are harder to get and they are not fully funded.

01:02:40	Ingwersen talks about some of the factors that make UW a great place to teach, even though the pay and benefits for faculty is not always comparable to other schools.  He has received three job offers from other universities and has chosen to turn them down.

01:04:35	NI discusses the problem of losing highly qualified faculty to other schools or not being able to attract the best candidates for jobs. On the other hand, the UW is sometimes able to lure good scholars from other universities.

01:07:58	Ingwersen talks about his personal response and campus reaction to the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. He talks about the powerful experiences of teaching and meeting with students in the wake of the attack.

01:12:10	He discusses the power of art to teach us about survival.  The cultural need for the “magical tale” stories.  

01:14:02	NI talks about some of his post-retirement activities.  He is working to put together a book on folklore and maybe Andersen.  The book will be based on some older articles, but significantly rewritten.  It focuses on the cultural need and function of stories in human life.

01:15:27 	An article on Kirkegaard and folklore.  A contribution to a book on teaching literature in translation.

01:19:04	Guest lectures.

01:22:45	Ingwersen talks about the honor of being named a Knight of Dannebrog by the Queen of Denmark, in 1997.

01:25:37	End of Side.  End of Tape.  End of Interview.

END