UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #373
YELLE, TELL C.

YELLE, Tell C. (1924- )
Undergraduate and Law Student
At UW: 1942-1943; 1946-1951

Interviewed: 1983	
Interviewer: Mailed questionnaire
Length: 2 hours, 28 minutes

Abstract: Through a mailed-in questionnaire submitted by Barry Teicher, Tell C. Yelle discusses his experience as a student at the University of Wisconsin, as well as his military service in WWII.  From 1942-1951, Yelle explains the culture of the University during his time studying law.  Briefly mentioned is his time overseas from 1943-1946, but Yelle is thorough in describing the reaction of his return and experience of veterans.  Yelle also details life on campus, in the dormitories, and in classes.  This interview was conducted for inclusion into the UW—Madison Oral History Program.

Keywords: Reasons for coming to UW; Arrival on campus; Classes; Social and extracurricular activities; Daily Cardinal; Campus norms; Intramurals and athletics; Appearance of military personnel on campus during WWII; Dormitory life; Experiences as house fellow; Donald Halverson and other housing personnel; Membership in Iron Cross Society.

Tape 1/Side 1
00:00:00	Start of Interview

00:00:12	Name and address.

00:00:32	TY's freshman year at UW, 1942-43.  Entered the U.S. army and came back to UW for his sophomore year, 1946-47; graduated with a B.A. degree in June 1949 and then in June 1951 with a law degree.

00:01:01	Started in 1942-43 as a freshman, admitted to law school his senior year.  With TY's senior year combined with his first year of law school, it took six years and one summer session to finish undergraduate and law school. 

00:02:07	Graduated from Fond du Lac High School, now known as Goodrich High School.

00:02:16	Considered attending Ripon College because of a possible football scholarship.

00:02:28	Selected UW out of loyalty to state schools and because of its excellent academics, and the fact that it was inexpensive and close to home.

00:02:43	In 1942, UW compared favorably to University of Chicago, University of Illinois, and Harvard.

00:03:01	TY thought that Beloit College was not in the same league as UW.  UW was consistently ranked high in studies.

00:03:19	He took the bare essentials to UW.  TY had not car, no stereo, but he did have a small radio.

00:03:41	TY got information about courses and housing by hitch-hiking to UW in the summer 1942.  When school started, he rode with a friend whom he had helped get a spot in the rooming house where TY would be living.  

00:04:41	There was no UW greeting upon TY's arrival.  The rooming house was on Lake Street.

00:04:53	TY chose courses by reading UW catalogues obtained during summer visits.

00:05:24	Student orientation session was the week before classes started.  It consisted of large assemblies and smaller groups.

00:06:31	His faculty advisor was helpful and encouraging.

00:07:09	TY's major was political science; he had planned on law school since he was a high school junior and attended American Legion Badger Boys' State.

00:07:59	Male and female students were expected to dress in a "reasonable fashion".

00:08:50	Law students dressed up to differentiate selves from undergraduates. 

00:10:08	Both before and after WWII professors dressed formally.

00:10:29	Professor Helen C. White, English Department, always wore purple clothes after being awarded a Vatican medal.

00:10:56	Professor J. T. Salter, Political Science, fit the absent-minded professor stereotype; he always looked as if he had just emerged from a wind tunnel.

00:11:29	No concern over the expected behavior of students in class.

00:12:07	TY was never in a class where the professor had to deal with a disciplinary incident.

00:12:19	Classes were generally coed but in law school there were few women; classroom expectations and accessibility were the same for women.

00:12:43	In 1942-43, the average lecture class had 150-200 students, after WWII, it mushroomed up to 300; classes were small, 20-25; labs were not overcrowded before or after the war.

00:13:26	Classes were formal with students called upon to respond or allowed to respond; in undergraduate classes, reading assignments were covered.

00:13:54	Law school classes were held in amphitheater type rooms; professors would call upon students but class participation had no bearing on grades which were based entirely upon four hour final exams.

00:14:47	Students were not expected to bring anything particular to class for taking notes; students carried everything under their arms.

00:15:30	In undergraduate classes, professors had similar lecture styles; individual manner of presentation, sense of humor, and reputation set apart the more effective, distinctive professors.

00:15:57	Professor Kiekhofer, Economics Department, was the best known lecturer on campus due to his histrionics and personal appeal.  At the start of all his lectures, students would do a voluntary skyrocket cheer for him.

00:16:28	Helen C. White had a quiet approach to lectures, her lofty reputation kept the interest of students.

00:16:42	Professor David Fellman, Political Science Department, was a smooth, comprehensive lecturer, especially in his Constitution Law course.  He was a favorite of students because of his clever, wry sense of humor; he was TY's advisor and TY continued to visit him after graduating from law school.

00:17:13	Discussion and format of lectures.

00:17:40	Quiz sessions conducted by graduate students.

00:18:14	Reputations of professors for long papers, research assignments.

00:18:36	Language courses, specifically Spanish courses, met four times a week in groups of fifteen to twenty; discussion and written work.

00:19:18	Law school was very different from undergraduate classes; amphitheater type classrooms; no quiz sessions, no small class meetings; grades were entirely dependent on final exams.

00:19:38	In non-lecture situations, students were expected to participate in class.

00:19:58	Professors addressed students as "Mr" or "Miss" and students addressed professors as "Dr" or "Professor".

00:20:16	Truancy, in the high school sense, was not a university concern; there was a rule that one had allowance for three absences.

00:20:50	Course expectations of professors and instructors were clearly specified.

00:21:26	Not much memorization for class work except in language classes.

00:21:56	Law school involved memorization (word for word).

00:22:15	Classes met one hour per credit weekly, except sciences met an additional hour for lab.

00:22:39	Homework in political science and history classes had reading assignments of fifty to seventy-five pages each; Spanish classes covered a chapter for each class session.

00:23:00	Professors were available to students outside of classroom time and office hours.

00:23:47	TY had frequent contact with professors in non-academic situations.  Faculty spoke at house dormitory meetings and other meetings.

00:24:28	Robbin Fleming, Frank Remington, Harry Shook, Nathan Feinsinger, David Fellman were law school professors.

00:24:47	Iron Cross Society met with a number of professors both socially and on committees.

00:24:59	Undergraduate grades determined by exams, quizzes, and papers.  

00:25:31	TY had no idea what other students' grades were.

00:26:03	He and his parents considered grades important.

00:26:47	TY didn't sacrifice campus activities for the sake of grades; during law school TY was a house fellow and head fellow.

00:27:11	Undergraduate final exams were essay exams; final exam format, blue books.

00:28:55	Law school grades were determined by four-hour essay exams; preparing for exams.

00:30:03	Exams proctored.

00:30:18	Cribbing was not a major problem.  TY remembers some incidents where proctors picked up the blue books of students who were cheating.

00:30:38	Final grades were mailed to students' homes.

00:31:19	TY was in a BA program so he took the minimum of science courses; the labs were reasonably well equipped.

00:31:40	All of his professors were good.  Helen C. White; [William] Bird Hesseltine, History; Bill Stokes, Political Science; David Fellman, Political Science.

00:33:10	Professor Delmar Carlin, law school, was in the same army reserve unit that TY was in.

00:33:52	All of TY's professors were active in research and their teaching reflected that experience.

00:34:23	Professor William Herbert (Herbie) Page, an octogenarian while TY was a law student, was an obvious eccentric and very lucid.

00:36:07	TY had personal contact with Fellman and Carlin.

00:36:28	Professor Otto Kowalke, emeritus professor of engineering, was a member of the Residence Halls Faculty Committee when TY was.  TY got to know him well.  Kowalke took UW courses into his nineties.

00:37:01	The above indicated professors were the best teachers.

00:37:17	Professor J. T. Salter, political science, was an eccentric type, excellent teacher with a tremendous memory despite scatter-brain appearance.  Salter had grass roots experience with "tough ward politics" in large cities.

00:38:09	TY visited with Fellman and Salter a number of times after he graduated from law school.  He kept in touch with Otto Kowalke and visited occasionally with President E.B. Fred.  Ty was acquainted with LeRoy Luberg, system vice president, through the Iron Cross Society.

00:39:10	In 1942-42, TY lived in off-campus housing.  TY entered military service after his freshman year.  When he returned to college, he lived in a dorm which was a great experience.

00:40:03	TY lived in Ochsner House in Adams Hall for two years.

00:40:11	He had one roommate in Ochsner House, Bob Smith from New York City with whom he is still friends.  Bob Bittner, from Green Bay, was the house fellow and a law student; duties and responsibilities of house fellow.

00:42:34	Relationship with house fellow at Ochsner House, good friends, advice and directions; TY was Ochsner House president for the two years he was there; TY became a house fellow.  He has kept in contact with Bob Bittner.

00:43:53	Typical dormitory dinner: Roast beef entree, green vegetable, potato, green salad, desert, milk, coffee.  Adams and Tripp residents dines at Van Hise Commons (now Carson Gully Commons).  Houses were assigned to specific rows of tables; a shirt with collar had to be worn for dinner; meals were taken from trays; tables sat twenty to twenty-five with food served cafeteria style; student workers; manners stressed, no prayer, conversation varied, good food.  At the Sunday noon meal a dress shirt with a tie was required and a jacket was requested.  The Sunday noon meal was the highlight of the week; steak was often served and guests frequently attended the meal.

00:45:52	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:45:53	Food service.  TY was house fellow of Swenson House in Kronshage Unit his senior year which coincided with his first year of law school.  He dined at Kronshage Dining Hall which was under the supervision of Mrs. Catherine Henning, and Van Hise Commons was supervised by Miss Buelah Dahle and the chief cook was Carson Gully.  All were dedicated professionals.  Kronshage Unit quarters were more restricted but the atmosphere was as pleasant as Van Hise Commons.  The food was very good at Kronshage and the food service workers were very dedicated.

00:47:21	TY knew housing employees: Carson Gully, Don Halverson, Lee Burns, George Gurda, Newell Smith, Larry Halle, Ferd Hinz, Arnie Dammen, and the head of women's residence dormitories.

00:47:55	Carson Gully had a talented and warm personality, but suffered from the fact that he was black.  Lee Burns, to his credit, provided Carson Gully and family with an apartment in Tripp Hall men's residence.  Gully's wife wasn't seen much.  Lee Burns succeeded in buying a home for Gully in a Madison suburb.  The title was in Burns' name which he resold to Gully.  This was the only way Gully could buy a home in the Madison area.  Carson Gully became a Madison celebrity with his cooking program.

00:49:35	TY knew Don Halverson when he was consultant to the residence halls staff when Lee Burns was director.  Halverson and Burns were good friends.  Halverson was an engineer and an inventive person, an excellent administrator with a quiet personality and an effective communicator.  Halverson was the "father" of the modern UW residence halls system, responsible for the direction the system has taken.

00:51:39	Dormitory rules came from the university and from each individual house's council.  Alcohol was not allowed in rooms.  On Friday and Saturday nights, beer was allowed in the dormitory party rooms under supervision of the house fellow.  Social chairman; quiet hours.  Rules against girls in rooms except Sunday afternoons and the house fellow had to be present in house.  Parents and guests visited on weekends.  Maid service available in the dormitories.

00:53:33	Serious violations of the rules such as drinking or exploding firecrackers were directed to the Student Conduct Committee for disciplinary action.  A severe penalty was to be found guilty and have a letter sent to the parents of the individual.  In severe cases, an individual would be expelled from the dormitory.

00:55:00	TY lived in dormitories until his graduation from law school. 

00:55:36	TY liked the rooming house he lived in freshman year but preferred dormitory living.

00:55:44	While at the rooming house, he didn't have a roommate.  His apartment was one of nine in the rooming house on Lake Street; TY paid about $30 a month for a furnished apartment.  He ate lunch at the Varsity Restaurant where he worked.  In the evening he waited tables at the University Club.  His landladies were reluctant initially to rent an apartment to a freshman.  The landladies cleaned the apartments.

00:57:56	Military service.

00:58:06	TY spent his leisure time either working at Memorial Union Library evenings or at the Rathskeller on weekends.  The Rathskeller was the center of social activity (drinking beer, movies at the Union, talking to friends).  The Memorial Union was a prominent part of TY's social life.

00:59:17	After returning to campus in 1946 and becoming a dormitory resident, TY's social life became dormitory-centered.  The residence halls had lots of parties.  Pine Room, under Van Hise Commons; Varsity Athletics; Intramural Athletics.

01:00:21	Memorial Union and all other campus buildings were accessible to all students; UW was criticized for allowing political minorities access to buildings.

01:00:49	Fads and hobbies: Girls wore bobby socks and saddle shoes; both sexes wore loafers with pennies in the strap; girls wore long "pearl" necklaces; veterans wore service clothing (seldom to class); photography; arts group; music appreciation group; Rose Taylor Room, Kronshage Hall, held regular programs each weekend with campus speakers; houses had magazine budget (Life, Time, Newsweek, or U.S. News and World Report, some houses got the Wall Street Journal, local papers, Chicago Tribune).

01:02:33	TY was not a movie goer.

01:02:41	TY seldom listened to radio except for news and varsity games broadcast and an evening program of light music and talk show "The Rumpus Room" from Milwaukee, the emcee was Johnny Olson.

01:03:07	All students read the Cardinal.  Cardinal consistently awarded one of the top college newspapers.  It had a pro-Greek bias; the dormitory scene was well reported, campus politics was fairly reported, even gossip columns were well written.  Dormitories had a publication The Spectator.  The Octopus was a quarterly humor magazine.  The Badger was the UW yearbook.

01:04:36	A typical campus date was to attend a co-ed party in a dormitory party room or at a fraternity, or go to a movie and then stop at the Cabin or the Badger Tavern.  Special occasions were the Dormsylvania dance, the Military Ball, the Pre-Prom, Junior Prom, and Senior Prom.  Formal dances were popular; dormitories and Greek system held formals.

01:06:00	Accepting campus attitude regarding alcohol.  Veterans had considerable experience with alcohol and many smoked cigarettes and even pipes.  Drug use was practically unknown.  Marijuana was only heard of it a celebrity was arrested for using it.  There probably was promiscuity but not like it seems today.  Attitudes about sex were conservative, legal and religious prohibitions were prevailing influences.

01:07:04	TY's parents only occasionally expressed views of college social life and university students; they were concerned about the "radical figures" who spoke at the University of Minnesota.  Jack Kling, avowed communist, and on the FBI's most wanted list, went underground.

01:07:46	Intramural sports were very popular.  TY played football, basketball, and softball at Ochsner House.  When he was a house fellow at Swenson, he played on championship teams.  Some varsity football players played intramural football during the off-season.  The final contest was between the dormitory top team and the fraternity top team; the annual touch football game was between the top dormitory team and University of Minnesota's top dormitory team and was played the morning of the varsity teams' game.

01:09:46	When TY was at UW dormitories, Ochsner House was the athletic intramural power in Adams Hall.  Jones and Swenson House were athletic powers for Kronshage Unit.  Tripp Hall didn't have a clear cut power.  House fellows were allowed to participate in intramural sports.  The Supremacy Cup was awarded to the team with the most sports scored for the whole year.  Jones House and Ochsner House won the Supremacy Cup most times while TY was at UW.

01:10:50	Boxing, basketball, and football were popular on campus, in that order.  Crew racing was also popular.  UW-Madison had a fine boxing program for years.  In 1947, the Badgers made the NCAA final.  In 1942, Wisconsin had one of finest football teams which included Elroy Hirsch, Jack Wink, Fred Nagus(?), Dave Schreiner, and Bob Bauman.  After the war, varsity football slipped.  Coach Harry Stuhldreher replaced by Ivy Williamson who rebuilt the football team.  Williamson`s former assistant Milt Bruhn had the most success with Wisconsin football since 1942.  Wisconsin always had a strong crew program.

01:12:49	Wisconsin viewed as national power in 1942-43 and 1946-52 in boxing, football, basketball--but not consistent powers.

01:13:11	In 1943-43 football players Elroy Hirsch, Jack Wink, Fred Nagus(?), Dave Schreiner, Bob Bauman were prominent on campus; basketball player John Cox was the most prominent and reputedly the first basketball player to use the single-handed jump shot and one-handed free throws, Fred Rehm, Bobby Awlin, and Bud Foster was the basketball coach.

01:13:57	After the war, Don Rehfeldt(?) and Bobby Cook were the prominent basketball figures on campus, for football it was Bob "Red" Wilson (now a Madison banker, also a fine student, TY knew him well), Allen Ameche (dorm resident, All American football player for UW, later a professional football player with Baltimore), Harlan Carl (dorm resident, from Greenwood, Wisconsin, star on one of UW's Rose Bowl teams).

01:14:57	Usual to take dates to sporting events.  Student ticket coupon books had pre-assigned seats; traded with other students so as to sit next to date.  Football was the usual sport to take a date to although TY took dates to boxing matches.

01:15:31	School spirit, bonfires and pep rallies.  Not until after the war did UW have women cheerleaders or women in the university marching band.

01:15:58	Major social events were campus formal balls; the highlight was the junior prom held at the union and featured a nationally known orchestra.  The men wore white tie and tails; TY bought his own set of tails, tuxedo and white coat.  

01:17:13	Before the war, TY had a part-time job working noon hours in return for a meal at Varsity Restaurant, University Avenue.  Three nights a week he worked as librarian for the small Memorial Union library.  Six evenings a week he waited tables at the University Club.

01:17:59	Job hunting; student employment service at Memorial Union; F. C. Thomas was University Club manager.  TY waited on Count Carlo Sforza at the University Club.  TY worked 26 hours a week at about $.65/hour.  Turned down a job as a legislative page.

01:19:30	After WWII, TY received the GI Bill and worked summers.  TY financed his entire education with jobs and the GI Bill.  He usually hitchhiked between Madison and Fond du Lac; minimal expenses.

01:20:19	His senior year, TY was appointed house fellow at Swenson house and received room and board.  Later, as head fellow for two-and-a-half years, received special accommodations in La Follette House in Adams Hall and board and salary ($50-75 a month).

01:21:00	TY belonged to St. Paul's University Chapel student group but not one of his main activities.  He and his wife were married there, June 1951.

01:21:47	TY wasn't a fraternity member but he was rushed by Beta Theta Pi.  After the war, the fraternity system seemed immature and he chose to live in the dormitory.

01:22:30	There was also the cost factor: dormitories were cheaper than fraternities, also the social snobbery was unappealing.

01:22:50	Independent status as a dorm resident wasn't the same as the independent status of those living off campus.  Dormitory programs could be looked upon as provincial as the fraternity system.  Eventually, married a woman who was a sorority member; she initially lived at Elizabeth Waters.

01:23:42	When he was the Swenson house fellow, TY would skate in winter to his girlfriend's sorority house.  

01:24:22	The dormitories were good experience in learning how to deal with diverse types of people as opposed to fraternities that tended to choose from the upper social classes.

01:24:47	After the war, TY was involved in student government in the men's residence halls.  For two years he was the Ochsner House president and elected representative of Men's Halls Association Cabinet and president of Men's Halls' House President Council.

01:25:59	TY was involved in campus politics in conjunction with dormitory political action group.  Campus politics was fun and exciting, time consuming.

01:26:43	In the late 1940's, the Young Communist League, Young Socialist League, and other splinter groups were tolerated by students.  These groups were particularly active during the presidential election year when Henry Wallace was a third party candidate.

01:28:00	TY worked with Paul Trump, dean of men, and Louise Troxell, dean of women, in connection to his house fellow position.  He became good friends with them.  As head fellow in 1951, he was summoned to a meeting with them regarding UW's first "panty raid".

01:29:19	TY had casual contact with other deans in connection to meetings of administrative personnel in the division of residence halls.

01:29:32	Dean of engineering, spring 1949; confrontation between law students and engineering students.

01:30:32	End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:30:33	TY identifies self.

01:31:02	TY's freshman year, Clarence Dykstra was president.

01:31:22	When TY returned in 1946, Dr. E.B. Fred was president, a "man of the people".  Fred and his family ate at Van Hise Commons every Sunday.  Mrs. Fred was very friendly and popular; she was invited to and attended many dorm house parties.

01:32:14	TY got to know President Fred through membership in the Iron Cross Society (the senior men's honorary fraternity).  TY was chairman.  Fred met with group to discuss campus issues.  LeRoy Luberg also attended.

01:34:10	The Fred family lived in a large old home in the dormitory complex.  Fred's daughter Rosalie was well known in the dormitory areas and eventually married one of TY's Ochsner House housemates.

01:34:39	TY knew LeRoy Luberg through his connection to Fred and the military reserve (they were in the same group).  Later, both TY and Luberg were involved in federal government service.

01:34:59	TY had no personal contact with regents except at teas and functions.

01:35:18	The Sunday evening meal students ate at local restaurants because the dormitory cafeterias were closed.  DiSalvo's and the Roman Inn were popular restaurants.

01:36:06	TY (and other students) shopped at the Men's Hall Store, Coop, Union shops and stores on the edge of campus.

01:36:20	For beer and light lunches, students went to the Cabin, the Badger Tavern, the Hasty Tasty, and the Union.

01:36:38	TY didn't buy much from the local merchants but as chairmen of the men's halls' awards committee he dealt with local trophy distributors.

01:37:07	Benefitted from receiving the GI Bill (not affected by the Depression).

01:37:19	Before the war, TY was very conscious that he wasn't in the military (4-F at the time).  He later volunteered and was accepted.  TY served with the First Army from England through France, Belgium, and into Germany, and returned to UW in the fall 1946.

01:38:10	His freshman year, Navy radio trainees and ASTP army students were on campus.

01:38:57	Most male students after the war were veterans.

01:39:10	When TY became the Swenson house fellow that was the first male house of predominantly non-veterans.

01:39:48	TY's career goals were to enter private practice in Fond du Lac, his second choice was federal government service which he did.

01:40:25	He spent thirty-one years as a special agent and resident agent with the Treasury Department and the U.S. Department of Defense; he retired January 1980 and is working as a part-time consultant to the Defense Department.  His education prepared him for his career goals.    

01:41:10	TY's current thoughts on his UW education are positive; lasting friendships and great experiences.

01:42:39	UW is an outstanding university but he hasn't been able to persuade his children to come here.   TY's younger brother attended UW, lived in a dormitory and received a master's degree.

01:44:13	TY has attended all the house fellow reunions and many football games.

01:44:44	His career has taken him to many campuses in the United States and he has never found one that equaled the UW's beauty.  A unique university and TY is very happy to have spent six years here.

01:45:29	House fellow application and interview process.

01:48:37	Professor Otto Kowalke was a long-term emeritus faculty member on the University Residence Halls' Administration Committee.  House fellow selection process.

01:49:35	TY was on the house fellow screening committee when he was head fellow.  No politics involved in appointing house fellows.

01:50:23	House fellows were graduate students.

01:51:14	Major responsibilities of house fellows were to represent the residence halls, be at the house, and to be a mature leader figure.

01:52:30	In the Kronshage unit, each house had eighty residents which was more than Adams and Tripp units which had forty-eight.  Kronshage was a more demanding job.

01:52:50	A successful house fellow balanced personalities of the residents to make a cohesive group.

01:53:40	Major part of the job was to counsel students regarding course work and planning programs for the next semester.  The Division of Residence Halls received grade reports of dormitory residents and turned over to the house fellows; if a student was on the borderline, the academic dean would call in the house fellow to help the situation.

01:54:39	The house fellow provided a social example for students.  TY was motivated by his own house fellow to become a house fellow.

01:55:24	TY was expected to administer discipline, especially in touchy situations, or otherwise to turn the case over to the student conduct committee.

01:56:26	TY counseled students in course planning and personal problems; study habits seemed the most difficult for students.

01:57:30	When a Swenson house fellow, TY had two teams in each intramural athletic activity, regular weekend house parties, weekly house meetings, a representative on the men's hall cabinet and house president council, a classical music group, Union theater participants, music group members, a scholarship committee for assisting freshmen with grade problems, winter sports group, and a spring open house for the parents.

01:59:30	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2

01:59:31	As a house fellow, TY had regular contact with the residence hall staff, daily contact with the head fellow.  He knew all the staff members who sometimes came to house fellow meetings, had the most contact with Arnie Dammen.  Pine Room and meal times, contact with staff.

02:00:40	Director of Residence Halls made the head fellow selection with advice of assistant directors and staff; the outgoing head fellow had input.  The head fellow was the administrative head of the house fellows, intermediary between house fellows and Director of Residence Halls.

02:02:08	The head fellow lived in a suite of rooms in La Follette House and received salary ($50-$75) and room and board.

02:02:31	Responsibilities of the head fellow; weekly house fellow meetings, business meetings.

02:04:15	TY started the practice as head fellow of a weekly news sheet which continued after he left.

02:04:34	Individual house fellows would ask TY for advice.  Convenient for staff members to have the head fellow on the scene during their off-times.  Contact with University officials regarding dormitory affairs.

02:05:47	TY had a great deal of contact with residence hall staff as head fellow; met with Arnie Dammen, his immediate supervisor, once in the morning and once in the late afternoon.  Arnie always consulted with TY regarding dormitory information or problems.  TY met once a week with the Division of Residence Halls Staff.  He was acquainted with the branches of the service staff which made the job of house fellow easier; confidence in the ability of the residence halls staff.  TY ate at Van Hise Commons and Kronshage Unit Refectory as head fellow--"good business" to be seen regularly at dormitory eating places.

02:07:45	Mrs. Henning and Miss Dahle seemed to appreciate his presence at mealtimes.

02:07:56	TY had a office in the Rose Taylor Room at Kronshage Unit but it was difficult to split his time between two offices so he spent most of his time in his suite of rooms ("headquarters" for head fellow work and studying).

02:08:19	Residence Hall Staff.

02:08:25	Lee Burns, Director of Residence Halls during the entire time TY was involved as resident and fellow with the residence halls, was one of the most outstanding individuals that TY has ever known.  Burns gained a lot from when he was assistant director to Don Halverson.  Burns was one of the premiere directors of residence halls, just as Porter Butts was the top union administrator.  Burns was extremely low key, very understanding.

02:09:52	Arnie Dammen was heavy handed, loud talking, brusque manner, was in the same military reserve group as TY.  He took a leave of absence for a tour of duty in Germany and ultimately left for federal service.  Dammen was a "tough task master".  Dammen greatly respected Burns; critical of some of the other staff members.  He was the life of the party in social situations.  TY invited him on a deer hunting trip one school year; TY's relatives thought Dammen a great person.

02:11:55	Newell Smith, a bland assistant director but blossomed when he became director, had an excellent sense of humor and was a fine business person.  TY liked him very much.  

02:12:40	George Gurda took over Arnie Dammen's position.  Ever-smiling, mild mannered, very efficient and he had a wealth of contacts.  TY worked closely with him.

02:13:18	TY has great respect for all these individuals.

02:13:20	Ferd Hinz was assistant director, quiet.

02:13:33	In retrospect, TY thinks he would have enjoyed working in residence hall administration if he hadn't chosen law and government service.

02:13:58	World War II.

02:14:09	Lived off campus in 1942-43 in a rooming house because the dormitories were filled; University Housing Board.

02:14:55	Favorable interaction of Navy, Army students with University students on campus.  A large military presence at Truax Field but it was only felt on campus on weekends when military personnel came for recreation.

02:15:36	After the war, TY found the veterans more mature, experienced, and drank more than other students.  Veterans were less impressed with material things and social standing.

02:16:40	Veterans lived in the dormitories; no problems with veterans-freshmen interactions.  Veterans who lived off campus seemed to take longer to integrate.  Veterans were intolerant of radical campus political groups.

02:17:29	TY compares UW between 1942-43 and 1947-51.  In 1947-51 the apprehension of war was gone; the veteran influence was pronounced; GI Bill of Rights; dormitories filled to capacity.

02:18:48	In age, women students were between veterans and non-veterans.  The campus was similar to 1942-43 except that the student body was larger.

02:20:07	Football team's fortunes were rising.  No diminishment of UW academic standing.

02:20:44	TY's involvement with the Iron Cross Society, Delta Epsilon (Men's Halls Honorary Fraternity).  TY awarded Delta Epsilon's "Ruby Award".

02:21:44	Iron Cross Society, long tradition, honored 1% of male part of the senior class.  The equivalent for women was the Mortar Board Society.  The society honored distinguished students in many areas of campus life.  The tradition ran aground in WWII when the iron cross was identified with the German government and wasn't revived until 1948.

02:24:06	TY was elected to the 1949 group; impressive installation ceremony, among those attending were Nathan Heffern an (now Chief Justice of the Wisconsin Supreme Court), John Reynolds (former Wisconsin governor and now a federal judge), both had been Iron Cross members and house fellows.  TY was chairman of his group which renewed the tradition of acting as a service group for the administration of which President Fred availed himself.  TY isn't sure to what extent the Iron Cross Society has continued but knows it was active through 1951.

02:26:05	The selection process of the Iron Cross Society included recommendations from UW faculty and staff.  The society as a whole made the final decisions.

02:26:48	The Badger Yearbook devoted a page to the Iron Cross Society.

02:27:14	Bob "Red" Wilson was a 1950 Madison member of the Iron Cross Society.

02:27:53	End of interview.

END