UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #679
BROTSLAW, IRVING

BROTSLAW, Irving (1929- )
Graduate student: Professor, School for Workers
At UW: 1951-52; 1955-56; 1960-1991

Interviewed: 2004	
Interviewer: Maurice Better
Length: 2 hours 7 minutes

Early years; Interest in labor relations; International Brotherhood of Papermakers; School for Workers in Madison and Milwaukee; Course materials; Trade union bargaining power; High School Institute; Summer Institutes; Films in labor education; Tenure; Wages; Faculty governance; Political activism; Relationship with unions; Transformation of the labor movement and labor education.

Interview Session (August 13, 2004): Tapes 1-3

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:16	Irving Brotslaw speaks about growing up in an atmosphere of trade unionism; both of his parents worked in the clothing industry.

00:01:24	He mentions Professor Lloyd Francis at the University of Buffalo, who was very influential in teaching him about labor relations.  Francis convinced IB to study at the University of Wisconsin.

00:02:48	He says that personal experience in jobs in Buffalo also awakened his interest in labor relations.

00:03:06	He received his masters from UW in 1952 before serving in the military in south Texas; thereafter, he returned to Madison to work on his doctorate and minored in political science.  He left to work for a union before completing his dissertation.

00:04:11	IB speaks at length about his work for the International Brotherhood of Papermakers in 1956.  He discusses his role in negotiating pension plans for this union and notes that labor relations within the papermaking industry were relatively pleasant.

00:10:38	He describes leaving the papermakers' union for the School for Workers in 1960.  

00:12:56	He characterizes the hiring process at the School for Workers as very informal.  

00:15:14	He had a temporary appointment at the School for Workers in Madison.  He talks about the school's facilities, including his office in Camp Randall and the move to the Extension Building.

00:16:53	In 1961, he obtained an appointment to the Milwaukee office of the School for Workers.  IB describes the school's facilities in Milwaukee.

00:19:51	IB talks about where he taught classes while in Milwaukee, Waukesha, Racine, and Kenosha; he goes on to describe some of the local union halls.

00:22:52	He received no formal mentoring in the School for Workers; he talks about the influence of Norris Tibbetts and Jack Barbash.  He mentions a colleague in the papermakers' union from whom he learned teaching skills.

00:26:10	IB discusses his colleagues in the School for Workers.

00:28:23	He talks about how course materials were generated for teaching courses on collective bargaining, for example.

00:31:07	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:31:08	Irving Brotslaw continues to discuss preparing materials for courses on pension planning and health insurance.  

00:33:37	Such course materials were highly relevant because IB was producing them during the peak of trade unionism in the US.  He talks at length about the subsequent decline of unions' bargaining power, citing the example of the Milwaukee labor council and of workers in several Milwaukee industries such as AO Smith.

00:37:26	IB mentions the emergence of unions for service employees, teachers, and municipal workers; these new unions have not, however, counterbalanced the decline of union membership in traditional industries.

00:40:38	He thinks that industrial unions had more political and economic clout at their peak than do current service and "white-collar" unions.

00:44:10	IB assesses the impact of this shift in trade unionism on the School for Workers:  whereas there were four full-time faculty in the School for Workers in Milwaukee in the 1960s, these persons were not replaced when they departed.  The school had to employ faculty from Madison in addition to ad hoc faculty in order to teach courses.  He names some of his colleagues in Milwaukee.

00:46:55	Student unrest in Madison in the 1960s rendered faculty meetings more volatile; he thinks that the Vietnam War years had less impact on the School for Workers in Milwaukee.  He talks about conferences with the Milwaukee labor council.

00:52:54	IB discusses the development of the High School Institute and its emulation across the country.

00:55:09	He describes participating in the School for Workers' summer institutes in Madison.  He talks about "Luke" Lukaszewski's role as recreation director.

01:01:11	IB speaks about the importance of documentary films in labor education; he specifically mentions Inheritance, a film about the history of the American labor movement.

01:02:05	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:02:07	Irving Brotslaw continues to talk about Inheritance and the utility of films in labor education.  He goes on to mentions films that he has produced about job training and a 1941 UAW strike.

01:05:46	IB characterizes his students as highly motivated, “salt of the earth” people; most were high school graduates with skilled jobs.

01:11:06	He notes that many students attended School for Workers courses religiously.  He goes on to relate a story about teaching pension planning.

01:14:57	IB talks about traveling to teach School for Workers courses at UW-Parkside.

01:18:19	He describes tenure and wages in the School for Workers.  He commends Bob Ozanne for his handling of the school’s budget.

01:23:45	IB discusses changes in the department of labor education during his career: greater emphasis on academic background for new hires and raising program revenues.  He also talks about the budget process at Milwaukee.

01:27:59	He talks about faculty governance.

01:29:36	IB describes the activity of Milwaukee unions in endorsing candidates for local government.  He relates conducting campaigns for the Milwaukee public school board in 1965 and 1967.

01:33:14	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2

01:33:16	Irving Brotslaw continues to talk about his political activities with the Democratic Party in Milwaukee.

01:34:42	IB describes his relationship with the State Federation of Labor, the UAW, and the steel workers’ union.

01:39:27	He thinks there was little censorship of the content of School for Workers courses.  He talks about being hesitant to pronounce value judgments (with respect to unions and union officials) as a faculty member.

01:45:06	IB relates complaints about the production of one of his documentary films on the Allis Chalmers strike.

01:47:28	He talks about the Vietnam War.

01:49:28	IB was minimally involved with other labor educators.

01:50:15	The major change in labor education was the changing composition of the labor movement.  There is much less enthusiasm now.  He thinks there is more emphasis currently on taking defensive postures toward labor goals.

01:53:43	He also thinks that the labor movement is less effective in influencing local politics than was the case in the 1960s.

01:56:52	IB argues that the decline of the labor movement has adversely affected the country by making the major political parties more conservative.  The ideological basis of the labor movement, he says, has disappeared, and labor issues have become more technical.  He thinks that the traditional subjects of labor education–collective bargaining, e.g.–are irrelevant.

02:03:30	Maurice Better and IB talk about the education of public versus private sector workers.

02:04:13	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 3/Side 1

02:04:39	Irving Brotslaw continues to talk about teaching collective bargaining to public sector workers; this education differs from that for private sector workers because the state legislates benefits for public workers.

02:07:14	End of side.  End of tape.  End of interview.

END