UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #163
McCABE, ROBERT A.

McCABE, Robert A. (1914-1995)
Graduate Student; Professor of Wildlife Ecology
At UW: 1941-1984
		
First Interview 
Interviewed: 1979	
Series: Arboretum History
Interviewer: William R. Jordan, III
Length: 50 minutes

William Longenecker and Teal Pond; Grady Tract; Aldo Leopold, John Curtis and Norman Fassett; Picnic Point as horticultural site; Arboretum Committee; Horticulture vs. research; Bud Jackson and Arthur Hasler; Sale of wildflower area east of Fish Hatchery Road; Prairie burnings; Friends of Landscape; Arboretum budget; Buildings and grounds; Tom Buttson; Curtis as research director; McCabe's research; Albert Gallistel; Gardner ponds and marsh drain field.
		
Second Interview
Interviewed: 1994	
Interviewer: David J. Eagan
Length: 1 hour, 24 minutes
				
Research projects; Changes in campus ecology; Wildlife on campus; Educational techniques; Buckthorn and honeysuckle; Aldo Leopold Memorial Reserve; Vanished ecological features on campus; Students and colleagues; Preservation of campus green space.  

FIRST INTERVIEW (June 27, 1979): Tape 1

Tape 1/Side 1  

00:00:05	Started working in Arboretum as Arboretum biologist in 1943. Leopold, his major professor, got him the position.  William Longenecker controlled work crew as director of Arboretum.  Did odd things.  RM would tell crew foreman Tom Buttson[?] not to do them. 

00:05:11	Example, Teal Pond.  RM doing research on tamarack. Longenecker put in road uphill of pond, covered it with crushed limestone.  Pond supposed to be acid.  RM complained to Arboretum Committee but no one would rescind the decision.  Still there. 

00:07:41	Grady Tract.  RM doing research with growth of oak trees: white, red, burr.  Two years on in research, they plowed up stretch on which seedlings were growing. 

00:10:50	Influence of Leopold, John Curtis, Norman Fassett in Arboretum. 

00:12:04	Fassett and Curtis opposed lawn mowing and horticulture.  Wanted it put on Picnic Point.  No one on committee willing to argue with Longenecker.  If he quit, no one to replace him.  Ran Arboretum from his office on Ag campus. 

00:14:40	More on Leopold.  After his death, RM worked to keep department going. 

00:17:34	On Arboretum Committee first as biologist, later as faculty, ten to fifteen years. 

00:19:10	Q. on Arboretum Committee.  Curtis and RM stood alone on many things, e.g. horticulture vs. research.  Jim Jackson, Fassett, Hasler good people.  RM comments on opportunities lost, e.g. selling area east of Fish Hatchery Rd, wild flower area.  Describes fate of land.  Now owned by Madison Newspapers.  Lack of foresight by people paid to have foresight. 

00:23:45	Effects of burnings.  Desodding, raking, and seeding with prairie seeds. 

00:27:41	Max Partch. 

00:29:36	End of side  

Tape 1/Side 2                                                    

00:31:40	Discussing a newsletter RM put out briefly.  Opposed by Committee Arboretum was run out of Gallistel's vest pocket. 

00:32:50	Group called Friends of the Landscape.  Longenecker's group.  

00:33:58	RM regarded as Leopold's flunkey.  Hasler's advice. 

00:34:55	Hasler only one still alive of that early committee.  Two groups in Committee.  Administrators--Gallistel, Peterson, McCaffrey.  Biologists--Leopold,  McCabe, Hasler.  Latter group often didn't have say.  Salaries low for people employed by Arboretum.  

00:35:55	Arboretum budget treated like buildings and grounds budget by Gallistel.  RM paid as laborer.  

00:36:45	Land that could have been bought but wasn't.  No one ready to fight for it.  Col. Jackson was with administration group.  

00:37:59	Buttson member of buildings and grounds and had access to Longenecker.  He and RM very close.  Constant bickering in Arboretum Committee.  No one took tough stand.  

00:39:40	Curtis as research director. 

00:41:20	RM's research on a plant.  Found it mowed down.  

00:42:50	Q. on dredging for Gardner Ponds.  Leopold wanted them as shorebird ponds.  System for changing water level.  Drain field in marsh.  Gallistel knew was there--knew everything there.  Never told anyone.  

00:46:32	Gallistel ran Arboretum to suit himself.  Was it only way to save Arboretum?  

00:47:40	More on Curtis.  

00:49:06	RM's comments on tapes.  Jackson's name Bud, not Jim.  

00:49:53	End of interview.

SECOND INTERVIEW (June 7, 1994): Tape 2

Tape 2/Side 1

00:00:28	RM discusses research projects he would conduct if he were beginning his scientific career at present.

00:03:11	Audio distortion begins, tape is inaudible.

00:03:35	He discusses some hunting controversies regarding University Bay.

00:05:20	RM explains how the campus ecology has changed over time.  He describes the dense thicket that existed near Elizabeth Waters Hall.  RM discusses the ecological impact of the Commerce Building (now Mark Ingraham Hall) and describes other lost features of the campus, including a marsh near the Biotron.

00:15:35	He describes the impact of animal rights activism on research.

00:16:29	RM outlines his efforts to catalog campus wildlife.  He describes student projects that recorded wildlife populations on campus.

00:17:30	He discusses campus ecological research projects appropriate for undergraduate students.

Tape 2/Side 2

00:38:05	RM describes how campus topography was used in Master’s and Ph.D. examinations.  He discusses how campus ecology can be used as an educational tool.  RM describes research possibilities in Bascom Woods and in the marsh.

00:50:55	He describes the problems to the Arboretum caused by the overwhelming growth of buckthorn and honeysuckle.  RM outlines some experiments he conducted on ways of eliminating honeysuckle.  He suggests effective ways to reduce buckthorn.

01:01:00	RM speculates on the future of the Aldo Leopold Memorial Reserve.  He describes his own farm in Iowa County.

01:03:20	He discusses other faculty members who are knowledgeable about campus ecology, including Gerald Gerloff.

01:06:34	RM describes a sunken garden and vegetable plots that once existed on campus.  He discusses former campus buildings.

01:11:02	He discusses the collection and retention of prairie seeds throughout is career.

01:12:36	RM discusses former students and colleagues.

01:14:35	He laments the lack of communication between buildings and grounds personnel and UW scientists.  RM discusses the preservation of campus green space.

01:19:11	One of RM’s sons is secretary of the Wildlife Management Institute.  He describes the careers of his sons.

01:23:53	End of side.  End of tape. 

 
END