UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #472
FINMAN, TED

FINMAN, Ted (1931- )
Professor of Law
At UW: 1963-1993

Interviewed: 1994	
Interviewer: Barry Teicher
Length: 6 hours, 4 minutes

Background; Stanford Law Review; Yates vs. U.S.; Courses; Faculty for Peace; Research; Deans of Law School, 1963-94; Accreditation; Clinical education; UW faculty and state law; Interdisciplinary courses; Faculty governance system; Social Science Divisional Committee; Faculty Senate; University Committee; Collective bargaining and TAUWF; Outside funding; Enrollment issues; Grievance claims; Athletic Board; Eligibility rules; Sports cuts; Big Ten controversy; Censorship and Playboy; Sexual harassment; Hate speech codes; Democratic party politics; Retirement.

First Interview Session (October 14, 1994): Tapes 1-2

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:14	TF was born and raised in San Francisco. In junior and senior high school, he became very active in public speaking and debate.  Because high school was not academically challenging, TF enrolled in the undergraduate program at the University of Chicago after his junior year. Within three years he graduated with a BA in general liberal studies.

00:06:50	TF planned to use a law degree as an entrée to politics, thus he decided to apply to law school after graduating from the University of Chicago. He was accepted at Stanford but before he could pursue his law studies he was required to take additional undergraduate courses, a requirement he fulfilled at the University of California, Berkeley.

00:11:24	TF became aware of the complexity of social problems while at Stanford Law School. Because he was often the top student in his classes, TF was regarded as an "up-and-comer" who would be a future leader. Professors that TF remembers with admiration include Phil Neal, Keith Nann, John Merryman, and Moffatt Hancock. Hancock taught him the importance of the relationship between law and language.

00:15:50	TF was editor-in-chief of the Stanford Law Review, where one of his responsibilities was hiring editors. He enjoyed working for the Review because it looked good on his resume and enabled him to improve his writing and editing skills.

00:22:08	TF was elected to the Order of the Coife, an honorary society. After three years of course work, he graduated first in his class from Stanford.

00:22:35	His first law position was in a small law firm in San Jose. Most of his cases involved personal injury claims. At this time, the US Communist Party was being prosecuted in numerous cases under the Smith Act. Party leaders needed effective representation at Supreme Court proceedings. Because of his experience with free speech litigation, TF was sought out to help represent Communist party members. The case, Yates vs. US, was eventually brought before the Supreme Court.  This case was one of the first won on the issue of the validity of the evidence presented in the case.

00:30:59 	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:31:10	The Yates vs. US case took almost two years to reach settlement. Afterwards, TF accepted a job at a law office in San Francisco which catered to a wealthy clientele.  In 1959, Phil Neal notified him about a teaching position at the University of New Mexico (UNM). After an interview with Vern Countryman, TF was hired to teach courses in Civil Procedure and Evidence at UNM.

00:34:57	While at UNM, TF was also a visiting professor at Stanford. Albuquerque was not very stimulating for TF or his wife, so he took a position at Rutgers Law School-Newark in New Jersey. There, he taught courses entitled Civil Procedure and Debtors & Creditors. Though he was offered a full-time teaching position at Rutgers, TF declined it to accept a job at the UW, which he believed to be a better school. He also thought Madison provided a nicer environment in which to raise a family.

00:40:10	In the early 1960s, UW's law school had many renowned faculty members such as Willard Hurst, who had a national and international reputation for legal history, Jake Borchardt, and Frank Remington.  TF admired UW's interest in "law and society" research as opposed to just the traditional research areas.

00:42:30	Once again, TF was responsible for teaching courses in Civil Procedure and Evidence. Civil Procedure examines problems that arise in civil lawsuits. The course, generally the most difficult a student encounters in law school, is normally taken during the first year.  TF uses the course to teach students basic lessons and principles of legal analysis, which he believes to be the most important concepts students learn in law school.

00:49:24	Alternative dispute resolution methods, such as mediation, have been incorporated into many law courses.

00:50:11	For two years, TF taught an advanced course in Civil Procedure. Afterwards, he co-edited a paperback collection of readings on the topic of legal ethics with Vern Countryman; this casebook was the first modern book in this field. The legal ethics field became more popular in law schools with the Watergate Scandal. Eventually, most law schools came to require a course in legal ethics.

00:54:38	TF taught a seminar focusing on problems associated with political free speech. He and other faculty members were concerned that the government would repress the legitimate free speech rights of Vietnam War protesters. The course sought to address the issue of free speech in the Civil Rights and Vietnam War protest movements, along with other contemporary social problems.

00:59:30	Initially, TF was not very involved in the Vietnam protest movement, primarily because he wanted to focus his attention on academic life. However, the 1967 Dow chemical company demonstration at the Commerce building compelled him to join the movement.

01:02:07	End of side. End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:02:11	TF was shocked by the brutality of the sheriff's deputies towards anti-war protesters at the Dow demonstration. The Dow company was a leading producer of napalm, a chemical that was widely used by American forces during the Vietnam war. TF helped organize a faculty protest against the sheriff's department. Not all faculty members agreed with TF. The scope of faculty perspectives on the war varied from the social democratic left, which accused the protesters of being anti-democratic, to those strongly opposed to the war.

01:12:43	Ed Feige of the Economics Department and TF played an active role in the formation of Faculty for Peace. The group represented various political viewpoints ranging from the far right to liberals, represented by Maurice Zeitlin of the Sociology Department. TF disagreed with Zeitlin's politics. The group had difficulty in deciding upon an appropriate form of protest. Some professors believed that the faculty as a whole should take a position on the war; others believed that faculty members should oppose the war individually. TF went a step further by advocating that the faculty and UW should maintain a neutral position. After a meeting at the Stock Pavilion, Faculty for Peace ratified its anti-war position.

01:18:54	TF was not on campus when Sterling Hall was bombed. However, he remembers "the fact that someone was killed shook up a tremendous amount of people. The bombing did not change people's viewpoints on the war, but it did change what forms of protest were acceptable."

01:21:04	In collaboration with Ted Schneyer and Cliff Thompson, TF taught a course on language problems in law entitled Legal Process.

01:22:44	Research at the UW Law School was either doctrinal or law-and-society based. Doctrinal research analyzed the meanings and implications of judicial decisions. Law-and-society based research looked at the development of law in society. At the time, funding for law research came from three sources: the Ford Foundation, the Graduate School, and the UW Law School.

01:26:57	Most of TF's research was conducted prior to his arrival at UW. He wrote a review of a text on civil procedure and later compiled a list of recommendations for interpreting and using civil procedures. The article, published in the Yale Law Review, became the model for changes made to the rule. TF and Stuart Macaulay also wrote a piece on a doctrinal problem—the response of government officials to anti-war protestors. The question was whether the responses of government officials were legal under the first amendment, or whether they were violating the protestors' freedom of speech. TF and Macaulay's conclusion was that the response of the government was legitimate.

01:33:10	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

Second Interview Session (October 21, 1994): Tape 3

Tape 3/Side 1

00:00:00	TF was involved in a project, funded by the American Bar Foundation (ABF), that compared government-sponsored legal services in five major cities. An article on its results was later published in the Wisconsin Law Review.

00:02:48	With Ted Schneyer, TF revised an edition of the Professional Responsibilities Casebook.

00:03:35	When TF arrived at UW, George Young was the Dean of the Law School. Young was not an aggressive leader but appeared content to keep the Law School running smoothly. Some faculty members voiced their concern to the Chancellor that Young had not done enough to retain a fellow law professor, Lawrence Friedman. Young eventually resigned under pressure from the faculty and the Chancellor. 

00:05:49	Spencer Kimball was the next Law School dean. Kimball was active in sponsoring social gatherings for the faculty. He later left UW to work at the University of Chicago.

00:08:04	George Bunn succeeded Kimball. TF believed Bunn was not a good dean because he placed too much emphasis on clinical education.  When he left, the deanship was contested by TF, Shirley Abrahamson and Orrin Helstad. Helstad won, and, according to TF, functioned more like a caretaker rather than a true leader of the Law School.

00:13:48	Factions began to develop within the Law School. David Trubek led one faction and was active in promoting research. He was later appointed associate dean. These factions were based mainly on personality differences as opposed to differences in schools of thought.

00:17:53	After Helstad's departure, TF, Trubek, and Cliff Thompson were nominated for the deanship. TF and Trubek were not serious contenders, and many of the faculty adamantly opposed Trubek. As dean, Thompson raised considerable outside money for the Law School.

00:22:12	Controversy arose as to whether or not the Law School should be renovated or moved to another site. The majority of faculty did not want to move off-campus. Over the last five to seven years, several million dollars have been raised for the renovation project.

00:23:57	Daniel O. Bernstine is the current dean.  He had also served as UW's first "Hasty Fellow."  The Hasty Fellow Program funds study for minority law school graduates who then assume teaching positions nationwide1. Bernstine went on to teach at Howard and then at UW. TF says he is very popular with the faculty.

00:28:26	TF discusses the influence of the UW Law School Alumni Association.

00:30:25	UW had problems with the Association of American Law Schools and the ABA. These organizations questioned the adequacy of the Law Library and the excessive use of practitioners as lecturers.

00:31:11	End of side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:31:40	TF believes that the UW Law School was never in any real danger of losing its accreditation.

00:33:02	It has a great record of affirmative action in hiring women and minorities. The School insists on hiring well-qualified minority faculty.

00:35:26	TF recalls the clinical education debate of the 1960s and 1970s. Clinical education provides students with simulated law environments that allow them to engage in law practice. Dean Bunn believed that the school should be involved in public service representation.

00:39:53	Two major clinical programs emerged during this time, the LAIP (Legal Assistance for Institutionalized Persons) and the Legal Defense Program (LDP). The LAIP provides representation for prisoners and the mentally impaired.  The LDP represents people involved in misdemeanor cases. Both programs allow students to represent the clients with the assistance of a practicing attorney.

00:42:02	When TF first arrived at UW, some of the faculty ate together at Tripp Commons. However, since then social interaction between faculty members has become virtually non-existent, except when speakers are brought in for brown bag lunch seminars.

00:44:44	TF remembers support staff in the Law School, including Blair Kaufman, the Law School librarian, and Nellie Davidson, the head secretary in the main office.

00:46:49	Many of the faculty are involved in formulating state legislation: Arlen Christenson worked with Attorney General LaFollette; Walter Dickey headed the prison system; Marygold Melli, June Weisberger, and Howard Erlanger worked on revising laws on marital property; John Conway worked on reforms in the civil procedure area; and TF was appointed by the Wisconsin Supreme Court to revise Wisconsin's rules on professional conduct.

00:50:29	An inter-disciplinary bio-ethics course was developed by the Law School and the Medical School, and a search committee was formed to find suitable professors to teach it. Committee members included TF, Ann Althouse, Norman Fost, and Dan Wikler. Funding from the Biotechnology Center, the Law School, and the Medical School enabled the committee to hire two people, Alta Charo and Alan Weisbard.  Bio-ethics is an emerging field.  UW law professors continue to teach inter-disciplinary courses with sociologists, political scientists, and historians.

00:58:19	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

Third Interview Session (October 28, 1994): Tapes 4-5 

Tape 4/Side 1 

00:00:18	TF discusses the multi-level faculty governance system. The University Committee consists of six faculty elected by the faculty-at-large. It serves as the executive committee of the faculty and is responsible for addressing issues that are relevant to the faculty. Sometimes the University Committee refers issues to the Faculty Senate. The Committee also works with other elected or appointed university committees. When TF was chair of the University Committee, he had a good working relationship with then chancellor Ed Young.

00:05:26	Faculty governance at the departmental level is extremely important because it is at this level that issues pertaining to tenure, hiring, and curriculum are first discussed. Other levels of faculty governance include the college/school level, affirmative action level, admissions level, and student conduct policies level.

00:06:50	UW has a strong faculty governance system. TF believes that the number of schools nationwide that have strong faculty participation in governance is small. In his opinion, UW is "among an elite group, though not unique."

00:08:06	A nomination to the Social Studies Divisional Committee provided TF with his first experience in faculty governance. He served for three years on the Committee.

00:09:00	TF was once the chair of the Student Conduct Hearing Committee. This committee was an adjudicative committee that heard the appeals of students charged with non-academic misconduct. During the 1960s and 1970s there were many cases of student misconduct due to the Vietnam War protests.

00:11:06	To obtain a position on a university committee, one has to either be appointed or elected.

00:12:40	The Social Science Divisional Committee handled mainly tenure decisions. The tenure process begins with the department recommending a professor to the dean, who then notifies the appropriate divisional committee. The Secretary of the Faculty's Office provides staff support to the divisional committees. This position was held by Bill Loomer when TF was on the committee.

00:14:24	TF was asked to run for and won a position on the University Committee. Meetings, which included the six committee members and sometimes the chancellor, were held every Monday.

00:17:08	The Faculty Senate was created in the early 1970s. Attendance was never high at the meetings, therefore faculty representation was incorporated. A committee member can serve no more than two years. TF believes that the creation of a Faculty Senate was beneficial because it provides representation for the faculty-at-large as opposed to each faculty member having to vote individually on issues.

00:21:39	TF was twice elected chairman of the University Committee. His first term was in 1974-75.  Usually third-year committee members are elected as chair. However, those members (John Harriman and Jane Hutchinson) were not interested in the position, so TF served as chair during his second year. Arthur Kelman was also elected to the University Committee. In 1975-76, TF was again nominated for the chairmanship, along with Kelman. TF won again.

00:26:10	Collective bargaining for faculty was a hot issue during TF's tenure on the University Committee. UW and "Chapter 36" institutions (such as Green Bay, Parkside, and Milwaukee) were opposed to collective bargaining.  The "Chapter 37" institutions, represented by The Association of UW Faculties (TAUWF), were in favor of it.  UW saw TAUWF as a real threat.

00:29:24	The University Committee presented a resolution opposing collective bargaining to the Faculty Senate. The resolution was later adopted. TF and Gordon Baldwin believed that its language should not have been so anti-collective bargaining.

00:31:16	End of side.

Tape 4/Side 2

00:31:22	When TF joined the University Committee, it wanted an agreement with TAUWF that would safeguard the University's interests, meaning the University would be given power to choose not to participate in collective bargaining.  An agreement was not reached, however, because TAUWF did not want the System universities to become individual bargaining units.  The Chapter 36 schools wanted each campus to decide individually if it was going to participate in collective bargaining.

00:37:52	Everyone on the University Committee was involved in the issue of collective bargaining including John Rankin, Steve Chaffee, and John Harriman.

00:38:56	Chancellor Young was strongly against collective bargaining for faculty. He worked with people on the Board of Regents and in the state government to convince them to oppose the motion.

00:41:18	Key players of TAUWF were Ed Musik, the executive director of the organization, and Marshall Wick.

00:42:11	Meetings between TAUWF and the Chapter 36 institutions were not overly confrontational and were usually limited to three or four people.  TF was instrumental in arranging meetings between representatives of UW and governmental structures at other Chapter 36 Institutions, such as Oshkosh. It was hoped that out of these meetings would emerge an organization that would act as a counter to TAUWF and represent the faculty of these institutions.

00:48:04	TF believes that collective bargaining should not be seen as an end in itself but rather as a means to an end, such as having a meaningful say in faculty governance. In TF's opinion, faculty governance is not as effective when coupled with collective bargaining because the result is an adverse environment.

00:51:44	One of the first problems that TF had to confront as chair of the University Committee in 1974 was the "ethics" code, which regulated how much outside money faculty could receive.  Clara Penniman, the previous chair, and Frank Pelisek, a regent, proposed faculty members to be required to report how much money they were earning outside of their university position.  TF organized a campaign against this action.

00:58:41	Affirmative Action was stressed in the hiring of faculty for the Law School. Cyrena Pondrom, the Assistant Chancellor, was in charge of handling these matters.

01:02:25	End of Side. End of tape. 

Tape 5/Side 1

01:02:35	Chancellor Young was concerned about affirmative action; he was very politically sensitive.  He wanted to avoid controversy in the hiring of minority faculty. TF regards the early 1970s as a germinal period for the affirmative action movement.  Much is still being done at UW.

01:04:57	The Committee for Non-Discrimination and Affirmative Action in Faculty (CANAFE), was organized in part by TF. Eventually, the organization was made into an official standing committee.

01:05:55	Cyrena Pondrom and Jane Piliavin wanted to develop a women's studies program.

01:08:58	TF talks about the relationship between Ed Young and the University Committee. Young realized the importance of maintaining positive relationships. Not only would the Chancellor eat lunch weekly with TF, but he would also drop in on the University Club's meetings. TF considers Young a good administrator and a very wise person.

01:10:36	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

Fourth Interview Session (November 18, 1994): Tapes 6-7

Tape 6/Side 1

00:00:29	TF discusses enrollment issues. Chancellor Irving Shain asked TF to chair an ad hoc committee on enrollment. The committee worked for a year developing a plan to limit and reduce student enrollment.  Enrollment was growing disproportionately to resources and many feared the quality of education would be diluted.  UW broke new ground when the committee's plan was adopted by the Faculty Senate in the early 1970s.

00:05:10	The University Committee was peripherally involved in the growth of minority programs, i.e. Women's, Chicano and African American Studies. It was primarily interested in ensuring the new departments were staffed with qualified faculty.

00:10:26	TF talks about the role of the University Committee in handling faculty grievances, i.e. when a faculty member claims to have been mistreated by the administration. Denial of tenure, as in the case of Finley Campbell, was a typical grievance heard by the committee.2

00:14:48	TF believes that the members of the University Committee, during his tenure as chairman, did a good job in dealing with volatile issues that confronted them, such as collective bargaining.  In part, the strength of the governance system depends upon the sensitivity of the administration.  Ed Young was very much aware of the value of faculty governance.

00:20:44	Bernie Cohen asked TF to become a member of the Athletic Board. At this time, Ayd Sponberg was athletic director and Don Morton was the football coach. As a member of the Athletic Board, TF stressed athletes' academics. He questioned criteria of athletic recruitment: were athletes recruited solely on their athletic abilities, regardless of their academic merits/promise?  This seemed especially the case with football and basketball. Coach Morton was fired because many believed he was not very concerned about upholding academic standards. Sponberg was also fired.  While serving on the Athletic Board, TF also chaired the Eligibility Committee, which was responsible for deciding cases of academic neglect concerning athletes.

00:31:08	End of side.

Tape 6/Side 2

00:31:11	TF discusses the eligibility rules of the Big Ten and the NCAA regarding student athletes. UW only required them to attend classes. The Athletic Department was responsible for reporting academic problems to the Committee. TF and Barney Webb believed that the university needed to increase its recruiting standards.

00:35:06	Chancellor Donna Shalala made major changes in the Athletic Department. She dismissed Sponberg and replaced him with Pat Richter, who had been serving as personnel director of Oscar Meyer. TF states that with this change in athletic directors came a change in the University's attitude towards sports. There was now a greater desire to enhance UW's athletic prestige in the Big Ten.

00:43:54	During TF's three years on the Athletic Board, sports cutting became a hot issue as the administration tried to decide which programs to eliminate in hopes of decreasing the deficit in the University budget. Baseball, fencing, and gymnastics were all proposed to be cut.  TF wanted to cut baseball but not fencing, which only costs $50,000 a year.  Roger Formisano was instrumental in passing the proposal, though barely. TF believes that Formisano intentionally manipulated the budget in order to push the plans for the cuts through. TF, Barbara Wolfe, and Gerald Kulcinski prepared a detailed budget analysis and concluded there was no pressing need to deal with the budget problem in the stated five-year period. TF also believes that other sports were included on the "hit" list because if baseball alone was cut, it would be seen as a political move.

00:56:53	Equity between men's and women's sports became an issue. It is suggested that women's softball was eliminated because men's baseball was cut. It was not until 1994 that women's softball was reinstated.

00:58:27	The Athletic Board replacements made by Chancellor Shalala were to individuals who shared her viewpoint on sports. The sports cuts proposal came before the Faculty Senate. In the first round of voting, there were not enough faculty present. In the second round of voting, TF suggested that the vote be postponed until there was more time to consider the issue.

01:02:10		End of side. End of tape.

Tape 7/Side 1

01:02:15	The Faculty Senate adopted the proposal to postpone action on sports cuts, and though the vote was only one or two votes short of being unanimous, Chancellor Shalala implemented the sports cuts. This gave the impression she lacked respect for faculty governance.

01:05:16	The Board of Regents was concerned about the budget, but most members did not see why the problem had to be resolved so quickly.  Others such as Ab Nicholas, a former UW basketball player and Board of Regents member, supported Richter.  Chancellor Shalala also had to back Richter, because otherwise it would appear that she had no confidence in him.

01:10:37	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

Fifth Interview Session (December 2, 1994): Tapes 8-9

Tape 8/Side 1 

00:00:29	TF and the Chancellor debated the proposed sports cuts. The result was that they agreed to disagree.

00:02:20	Penn State's admission to the Big Ten sparked much controversy. Adding an eleventh school to the Big Ten would drastically impact game scheduling because Penn State was so far away from the other schools. Cyrena Pondrom and TF were UW's representatives to the Big Ten. They believed the decision to admit Penn State was a breach of process because the faculty representatives were not notified nor were the athletic departments forewarned of the decision.

00:06:11	TF discusses the legality of the sale of Playboy magazine in Memorial Union.  The Union decided to pull the magazine because it offended women. TF thought it was unconstitutional for the Union to remove Playboy because it was part of a publicly-funded university; hence, it was an act of censorship.  TF raised this issue with Bernie Cohen, acting Chancellor, who later appointed TF to head a committee to investigate the matter.

00:15:21	Questions came up about sexual harassment in the workplace. Federal agencies proposing rules against sexual harassment increased.  A system committee at UW adopted the sexual harassment policy model used in private enterprise. TF was chosen to chair a committee that formulated rules for sexual harassment at UW. This issue turned into a first amendment problem, because language or illustrative material that was offensive to women students was being used by some professors in classroom settings.  In addition, the committee was concerned with protecting academic freedom. TF believes that the rules created by the committee, and later adopted by the Faculty Senate, satisfied both students and faculty. (A copy of the rules is in TF's file in the Oral History Project office.) The current version applies to academic staff and faculty and distinguishes between instructional and non-instructional settings.

00:25:11	End of side.

Tape 8/Side 2

00:25:17	TF reads from a document which incorporates the committee's rules on sexual harassment entitled II-303 Prohibited Harassment: Definition and Rules Governing the Conduct of UW Faculty and Staff. Instructional settings are ones in which the faculty member is communicating educational material to students. TF describes incidents in which faculty used language and materials that had no legitimate claim to protection of academic freedom, i.e. using nude photos which made the classroom environment hostile for female students. Now teachers must justify their use of controversial materials. Since the implementation of the Committee's rules, there has been a marked decrease in the number of these types of incidents.

00:32:01	Other sexual harassment committee members include Marjorie Klein from the Psychiatry Department and Susan Friedman from the English Department.

00:33:00	TF discusses his involvement in developing hate speech codes. Arlen Christenson, a member of the UW system committee, proposed disciplining those who used hate speech defined in the context of the insult's message. TF and Gordon Baldwin believed that the proposal went beyond what was permissible and therefore violated First Amendment principles.

00:37:01	TF contacted Patricia Hodulik, a lawyer in the system administration, and they developed a proposal that was acceptable to the systems committee and did not violate the First Amendment. Richard Delgado, a law school professor, believed that the proposal should go further in prosecuting hate speech; TF believed that Delgado's proposal was too broad in its definition of hate speech.

00:42:53	TF and Baldwin then worked together on creating a proposal that prohibited the use of racial epithets in situations where specific personal insult was intended. This proposal did not apply to printed media but only to public incidents. TF believes that UW wants to create an environment in which all students can learn effectively and where racial epithets are not protected under the First Amendment. The system committee eventually adopted the code.

00:47:48	Chancellor Shalala and the majority of the Board of Regents approved the proposal. Some did think it violated First Amendment freedom of speech, but TF believes this to be an unsound argument.

00:50:46	The ACLU brought a suit against the system on behalf of the Milwaukee campus' newspaper and Federal Judge Warren ruled the hate speech code unconstitutional. TF believes that this was partly due to the misapplication of the code on other campuses. Shalala asked the Dean of the Law School to poll his faculty members to see if UW should respond to the ruling.  They decided not to appeal but rather to redraft the proposal and model it more after the "fighting words" doctrine, which required that a racist statement incite a violent response to be considered hate speech. From this redraft, two new guidelines emerged. First, that in public statements the use of racial epithets was not subject to discipline except in the context of a private insult. And second, that incidents of hate speech on other campuses within the UW System must be reported.

00:56:13	End of side. End of tape.
 
Tape 9/Side 1

00:56:15	The Board of Regents passed the hate speech code with a vote of nine to six in March, 1992.  Shortly afterwards, a U.S. Supreme Court ruling, R.A.V. vs. St Paul, challenged the constitutionality of the code.  In response, the Board of Regents decided to revoke it. Presently, the hate speech code is not enforced at UW.

00:58:13	In 1980, TF served on the Wisconsin Supreme Court committee that reviewed Wisconsin's rules regulating the professional conduct of lawyers. The Supreme Court agreed to adopt the rules formulated by the committee.  TF also served on a committee that reviewed complaints against lawyers violating these rules, and then it made recommendations to the Professional Responsibility Board.

01:03:30	TF discusses his involvement with the state legislature in regard to collective bargaining issues.

01:04:31	While living in New Mexico, TF and his wife Sue were active in the Democratic Party. Upon their arrival in Madison, they quickly became involved in the local Dane County elections, especially in the 1964 Johnson vs. Goldwater campaign. Sue served as campaign manager for Kastenmeier, and TF acted as treasurer for the 1968 state Eugene McCarthy campaign. The Finmans were also the Wisconsin McCarthy delegates to the 1968 Democratic Party Convention in Chicago. Sue was later elected chair of the Dane County Democratic Party.

01:08:44	In May 1993, TF officially retired from the UW Law School but was hired back to teach the fall 1994 semester; for the time being, TF hopes to continue teaching.

01:11:31	End of side. End of tape. End of interview session.

END