UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #942
WIPPERFURTH, DJ (Donna Jean Mary Francis Rose)

WIPPERFURTH, DJ (1945-)
Bartender, Cab driver
At UW: Not applicable (At Madison: 1963-)

Interviewed: 	February 14, 2009 
Interviewer: 	Pat Calchina
Index by: 	Pat Calchina & Troy Reeves
Length: 	1 hour, 31 minutes

Abstract: In her 2009 interview with Pat Calchina, DJ Wipperfurth details her life in Madison. She spoke of the time period between the 1950s and present (bulk of interview between 1960s and 1970s) and of the following topics: lesbianism, Madison (WI), Madison businesses (cab companies and bars), and gay men. This interview was conducted for inclusion into the project, Madison’s LGBT Community, 1960s-Present, part of the UW-Madison Oral History Program’s general collection.

Key Words: Madison (WI), Liz Estrada, Mary Rouse murder case, lesbian rights/issues, gay rights/issues, The Back Door, Cardinal Bar, Union Cab, Hotel Washington

Interview Session (2009): Digital File

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:27	DJ Wipperfurth moved to Madison on New Years Day, 1963.  She turned 18 on 2/2/1963. She needed to figure out her sexuality. Her grandfather was a big influence in her moving and in feeling hopeful about herself.

00:02:27	Wipperfurth met women at men’s (gay) bars. She touched on some of them, including one straight bar at Park and University, The Three Bells, where gays and lesbians congregated and the bar. The Stop Light probably became the first unofficial lesbian bar. Butch and femme were ways of relating for lesbians, but it confused Wipperfurth in her early years. Wipperfurth talked about the Pirate Ship, another bar were lesbians were welcomed. Violence against lesbians was always a possibility; Wipperfurth talked about one specific instance where some young men attacked her and her then girlfriend. For Wipperfurth, it was hard to have relationship with straight women, fear of the lesbian label.

00:13:57	DJ talked about how politics, later in the 1960s or 1970s (?), changed attitudes about being Butch or Femme. DJ mentioned both David Clarenbach and his mother, Katherine “Kay.” DJ noted how she knew David and Kay. She talked about how the laws have changed, except for domestic partnership laws; she mentioned a recent example of being in the hospital and having only “family” be able to come and see her. She furnished her opinions on the relationship between lesbians and straight feminists. She mentioned some women, both straight and lesbian, who fought for women’s and homosexual rights. She did recall a backlash, where some feminists felt hesitant to fight for lesbians’ rights, because they did not want to be called lesbians.

00:19:41	Wipperfurth discussed the creation of Liz Estrada, which became a place to mingle besides bars. DJ also talked about lesbian potlucks as a way to meet without going to a bar.  Wipperfurth thought Liz Estrada was the best place for lesbians in Madison. Liz Estrada, potlucks, other things made DJ feel that the public attitude for lesbians would change. DJ and Calchina bemoaned the loss of a place for lesbians to gather. DJ believed the fire that destroyed it was arson. She was driving cab that night.

00:23:50	Calchina returned the conversation to Liz Estrada. DJ offered her opinions about the fire’s cause. DJ was driving for Union Cab that night, and her dispatcher called her to tell her about it. DJ drove down to see it. DJ and Calchina talked about Liz Estrada’s creator, Catherine Rouse suicide/murder of her ex-lover, and what happened to her. Rouse murder, DJ was critical of news coverage, discussion of Mary Rouse speaking out, her courage around the difficult issue of mental illness. DJ talks about how the murder affected her and other lesbians.

00:29:11	DJ talked about the next (positive) phase (after Rouse): Tammy Baldwin. When asked about Women’s Transit Authority/Lesbian Switchboard, Wipperfurth said she only worked with WTA to try to save it. She talked about hotline creation and suicide or murder/suicide, which led Wipperfurth to discuss the Catherine Rouse suicide/murder, in more detail, including the mental illness/medication aspect of it. Calchina asked DJ if they held a memorial after the Rouse suicide/murder, Wipperfurth offered her memories of the aftermath.

00:36:16	Question: Changes in community after Rouse? Answer: DJ felt that they kept tabs on each other better. DJ did offer her thoughts on a dark side of the lesbian community, domestic violence. When asked DJ offered a memory of a couple (she did not name names) and domestic violence, which led DJ to be outspoken about it. She also talked about talking to the young lesbians about who came before them. 

00:40:27	Question: Did DJ participate in Pride marches? Answer: She did until she could not work anymore. When asked about the first Pride march, Wipperfurth said she did not feel any different, because for her it was a continuation of her advocacy. She noted that each year, more and more straights would march with her, include her co-workers at Union Cab. 

00: 42:50	Question: A Room of One’s Own, The Book Store as gathering place? Answer: DJ would go there to hear authors or read the books in the lesbian section, but she did not participate in gatherings there. She mentioned a woman named Karen (?) who worked there and called DJ to tell her when the new books arrived. Wipperfurth recalled a meeting at her house, where lesbians met to discuss A Room of One’s Own. [Tape 1 of the original interview ended at 00:45:18. Tape 2 starts.] DJ talked about Lesbian Thanksgiving dinners, including one where the cops were watching the house and writing down license numbers. DJ confronted them. She thought that might have been late 1960s/early 1970s; she marked the time by reminding herself of when she worked at different cab companies.

00:46:30	While working as a cabbie, DJ also tended bar, at the Back Door. Wipperfurth talked violence from people at the straight (college) bar across the street. Wipperfurth talked about how one smallish woman, who has since passed away, and one tall drag queen who assisted DJ when the straights came over for a fight. 

00:49:34	DJ talked about how the police had become more educated about gays and lesbians; they would come to the bar and ask DJ what happened. They never arrested anyone from The Back Door, which made the college boys mad. DJ noted the importance of Cooper as police chief in terms of more positive relationship between gays and the police. Wipperfurth said that most problems occurred during the cocktail hour, because later in the night there would be more people in the bar (strength in numbers). Wipperfurth only felt worried because she did not want to get hurt and lose her job at the bar. Managed Cardinal Bar, talked about fight with men across the street and help from straight male supporters.

00:52:27	Question: How long did DJ tend bar at The Back Door. Answer: 2 to 2.5 years. She recalled that she still drove cab. After The Back Door, she managed The Cardinal ar for five years; she left her cab job, because managing the bar was a full-time job. She enjoyed managing the Cardinal, but she would only do that again if she owned a place. She quit once, and the owner asked her back with a raise in pay. DJ did not accept the money, because it would have bankrupted the bar. Question: Working for Union Cab? Answer: The workers owned the company, which was the only difference between working there and the other cab companies. DJ drove from Union Cab from the 1st day it opened, October 29, 1979, until she left in 1999. She talked about an injury and surgery that forced her to stop driving cab. 

00:54:55	No question. In December 2004, DJ slipped and fell on the ice. She shattered her ankle, gangrene set in, and lost her leg. Question: Were you always a dancer? Answer: Always loved to dance, including with interviewer (Calchina) on occasion. DJ danced with Sue’s (?) partner, which Sue (?) liked, because she did not like to dance. Question: Apple Island? Answer: DJ talked about dancing there, including with Calchina, which led DJ to tell how her grandfather taught her to dance. DJ taught her brothers to dance but how to follow, not to lead. 

00:58:07 	Question: Concerts/musicians Answer: Do not know much about them, went to jazz concerts with Jean (?) Reynolds. Question: Lesbian Variety Show? Answer: DJ did go to those and liked them. She loved jazz concerts, mentioning some of the folks who played in town. She did note it depended on who she dated, for example one of her girlfriend would go to DJ’s softball games. So, DJ would go with her to the ballet and the opera.  Question: Did DJ play softball? Answer: Yes, she pitched, fast pitch. When asked to elaborate, DJ talked about Madison’s love of softball, and women who played sports joined softball teams. So, women, both straight and lesbian, played, and women, straight and lesbian watched. This thought led DJ to offer an anecdote about one particular game, where all the fans and players took their shirts off. The cops, who knew DJ, asked her specifically if she could get the people to put their shirts back on.  

01:02:09	Question: Same team as Sherri (?) Maples (?)? Answer: DJ played on the Danettes (?) when she first came to Madison, but she did not play on other teams. DJ told a story a game against a prison(?) team. This thought led DJ to talk about a lesbian to run for sheriff and her election poster. Calchina returned the conversation to the softball game with the female prisoners (?). Wipperfurth figured that most of them were not out. 

01:05:28	 Question: Race issues? Answer: DJ saw race as a problem, because there are not enough people of color. “Madison thinks it’s not racist, and it’s a lie.” DJ talked about a person, named Candace (?) Lewis, an African American in Madison, who could speak to diversity or the lack of it. DJ thought that political correctness stopped people from healing. DJ does appreciate political correctness, but it can obfuscate people’s real feelings. She told a recent story about a racist comment made by a person who lives in her building. 

01:08:35	Question: Where there racial issues in bars? Answer: Sometimes, and sometime the “race card” was played by people of color. [Phone rang, which shifted conversation.] DJ talked about A Room of One’s Own and their sign, which DJ took (with permission?) and changed. Question: Are you proud to be a lesbian? Answer: Yes, but DJ noted she first was proud to be a woman. DJ noted that growing up, in her big family in rural Wisconsin, she found no role models. Today, DJ noted, there are role models for young lesbians. This fact turned the conversation to domestic violence in the lesbian community, which DJ said should be discussed and dealt with openly. Young lesbians should take advantage of mentors in the community to help with the stress. DJ stated that she knew she liked girls, but she did not know there was a word for it.

01:12:52	Question: Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival? Answer: Never been to one, because she did not like to camp. Her idea of camping was a Holiday Inn. [Phone rings.] Question: Hotel Washington? Answer: DJ spent time there and discussed what she loved about it and about Rodney Scheel, who DJ worked for at The Back Door. Talking about Rodney led DJ to discuss the Rodney Scheel House, a place where gay men can die with dignity. 

01:16:22	Question: Gay men (relationship between lesbians and)? Answer: DJ discussed the complex relationship between lesbians and gay men. DJ always related to gay men or straight men well. DJ has been mistaken for a man over the phone (and in person). DJ told the interviewer her full time, which led to discussion about DJ’s Catholic upbringing and the meaning of each of her five names. DJ talked about her early Catholicism, her current attitude towards the Catholic Church, and her current spiritualism. DJ and the interviewer continued to talk about gay men, particularly how they have been scapegoated both in the past and today. This idea led DJ to note that many gay men will end up hating themselves for their sexuality and the correlation between being gay and having a higher rate of alcoholism & suicide. Part of that might have arisen from bars as their only outlet. DJ will spend a lot of time with lesbians with poor self images to let them know that they are valuable. DJ also talked about the suicide rate with young gay men. DJ does feel that gays and lesbians need to take care of each other, and she will get mad when she has seen people who should defend each other (gay men, women) attack each other. 

01:24:08	DJ and Calchina talked about Anita Bryant, Harvey Milk and the late 1970s and the effect it had on gay men and lesbians. Calchina talked to DJ about the movie, Milk. DJ talked about having good family and good friends, which has helped during her illnesses. Question: AIDS crisis and effect on lesbians & gay men (bringing them closer)? Answer: DJ felt it had brought them together; she emceed events for AIDS charities/benefits, before she lost her leg. Question: Did you think the Hotel Washington fire was an accident? Answer: No, but she has no proof of it. Question: Being considered a man (called “sir”)? Answer: If she wanted something, she never corrected them, because maleness equals power. DJ said that those situations had allowed her to see the world through male eyes. DJ noted that her size gave her safety on the streets and the ability to hold her own in a fight. Question: Any final thoughts? Answer: Lucky to live in Madison. DJ called it “not perfect but leap years ahead of other places” and a “small, big city.” 

01:30:36	End of First Interview Session

End of Oral History #942