UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #420
UNGAR, IRVING AND UNGAR, CARLYN STRAUSS

UNGAR, Irving (1913- )
Undergraduate Student
At UW: 1931-1935

and UNGAR, Carlyn Strauss (1914- )
Undergraduate Student
At UW: 1931-1935

Interviewed: 1984	
Interviewer: Mailed questionnaire
Length: 00:40:32

Backgrounds; Student life; Effects of Depression; Jewish fraternities and sororities; Scott Goodnight; Louise Troxell; President Glenn Frank.

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:50  Carlyn Ungar (CU) is from Atlanta, Georgia, and graduated from Girls High School 
in 1931.  Irving Ungar (IU) graduated from Lakeview High School, in Chicago, in the same 
year.  They began as freshman at the UW in the fall of 1931, but did not meet until the middle of 
1932.  CU remarks that this was the time when Prohibition was nearing its end and the "bank 
holiday" began.  Both graduated from the UW in 1935.

00:02:08  CU says she is happy with her experience at the UW, remarking that she graduated 
with a bachelor’s degree and an "MRS" degree.  IU says he decided to go to the UW because he 
was interested in journalism and advertising, but did not want to attend a school which was too 
close to Chicago.

00:02:47  IU and CU talk about student dressing habits.  IU says that all of the classes were 
co-educational and there were no differences between the way male and female students were 
treated.  The average lecture size was around five or six hundred for a popular class, he says.  
The average size for a quiz section was around thirty.  IU remarks that Kiekhofer's economics 
class was one of the most popular on campus.  IU talks about Harry Harlow, another popular 
professor.

00:05:30  CU says she thinks students were well behaved in class.  She talks about Professor 
Charles Dobbins, a professor of English.  She reports that professors and lab instructors treated 
students fairly.  She does not remember having any opportunities to talk with faculty members 
after class.  IU talks about journalism professors: Grant Hyde; Curtis McDougal; Helen White.  
He talks about Professor Robert Aurner, who taught letter writing.

00:08:50  IU says he thinks living in a fraternity house was a good decision.  Freshmen were 
not allowed to live in a fraternity or sorority house.  Out-of-state male students were not allowed 
to live in dormitories.  IU talks about meals at his fraternity house.  CU talks about her sorority 
house mother and about meals at her sorority.  Because of the Depression and because of the 
dependence of the Wisconsin economy on cheese, she says, some form of cheese was required to 
be served every day at her sorority house.

00:11:00  IU talks about his fraternity's house rules.

00:11:57  IU talks about how students' leisure time was spent.  He talks about going to 
speakeasies.  CU talks about going to Frenchy's to eat, and going to dances at the Maple Bluff 
and Nakoma Country Clubs.  IU reports that the Memorial Union, and particularly the 
Rathskeller, was a popular place for students to socialize.  CU adds that women were not 
allowed in the Rathskeller.  CU talks about the 770 Club, an on-campus nightclub with a band, 
which served soft drinks.

00:14:40  CU talks about the annual May Day Parade, organized by the law and engineering 
students.  IU talks about two other popular places at which students spent time: Esther Beach 
and Hollywood, both dance clubs on Lake Monona.  Female students had to return to their 
houses by 12:00 midnight, he says.  IU talks about the Campus Soda Grill, located on the lower 
campus (the area between the old main library and the Red Gym).  IU says the lower campus 
was the main gathering place for students.

00:17:36  IU reports that a moderate amount of alcohol was consumed by students.  Some beer 
was brought into the fraternity houses; spiked beer was available at the speakeasies.  CU says 
she was not aware of anyone using drugs.  IU talks about other popular spots: Geller's 
Delicatessen; The Chocolate Shoppe; and the Capital and Orpheum movie houses.

00:19:32  IU says that popular radio shows included: "Amos and Andy"; "The Hit Parade"; "The 
Metropolitan Opera" broadcasts; "The Kleko Club Eskimos"; and "The A & P Gypsies."

00:20:28  IU says that students did not go out to dinner on dates because their meals had already 
been paid for at their fraternity or sorority houses.  He says that couples often went to see a 
movie, followed by a visit to the Chocolate Shoppe.  On big weekends, students would often go 
to dance clubs in large groups.  He does not recall anyone bringing alcohol or drugs to these 
clubs, although he says there was a lot of smoking.  CU adds that a "date" would often consist of 
groups of couples gathering at a sorority house to talk.

00:22:11  IU says that he and his friends played bridge almost every night.  The most popular 
intramural sports, he says, were softball and touch football.  The most popular intercollegiate 
sports were basketball and, to a lesser extent, football.  CU says that students would return from 
football games at Camp Randall Stadium by marching behind the band down University Avenue.  
IU adds that the marching band was always better than the football team.  The major social 
events of the year, according to IU, were the junior prom, the senior prom and the military ball.  
CU says that students often went to listen to concerts in the stock pavilion.

00:25:11  IU says that to earn money for room and board, he and CU worked as managers of 
their fraternity and sorority houses.  They talk about what these positions entailed.  Both IU and 
CU are Jewish, and IU reports that they were somewhat involved in Hillel, which he says was 
moderately active on campus.  IU belonged to a Jewish fraternity and CU belonged to a Jewish 
sorority.  CU comments on the distinction between Jewish and non-Jewish fraternities and 
sororities.  Other than the fact that the Greek houses were segregated, they both say, they did not 
experience any discrimination.  IU talks about the fraternity rushing and hazing processes.

00:28:43  IU talks about Dean Scott Goodnight, the dean of men.  CU talks about Dean Louise 
Troxell, the dean of women.  CU talks about the Experimental College (EC), founded by 
Alexander Meiklejohn.  CU dated a young man who was the roommate of Meiklejohn's son, and 
so found out a lot about the EC.  CU says the EC was a wonderful idea, but it did not last long.

00:31:05  IU talks about President Glenn Frank.  CU talks about Secretary of State Cordell 
Hull, who gave the commencement speech at the UW in 1935.  IU talks about Professor 
Grayson Kirk, a political science professor who later become president of Columbia University.  
CU talks about "Marvelous" Max Otto, who taught a popular philosophy class.

00:33:10  IU says that students had very little contact with people in the community.  IU says 
that every week, many students would mail their dirty laundry home to be laundered.  He says 
that it took one day for the dirty clothes to get to Chicago and two days for them to get to 
Atlanta.  CU adds that there were few facilities near the campus for doing laundry at that time.

00:34:46  IU says the Brat House was a popular place for students to go.  IU talks about the 
"bank holiday," during which everybody ran out of money.  IU adds that the experience of 
living through the Depression had the effect of giving him a greater appreciation of money and a 
greater understanding that "the bottom could fall out of anything."  CU says that they did not 
realize what a profound impact the Depression was having on them at the time.  But in 
retrospect, she says, it is clear that it did have a lot of impact.  She adds that students were much 
uninformed about what was happening in Europe at the time.

00:37:49  IU says that his career goal after graduation was to go into the advertising business.  
He started out selling classified ads door-to-door, and then got a job with an advertising agency.  
Later, he wound up in the "selling field."  He says that he still finds his educational experience 
at the UW to be helpful.

00:38:45  CU says that her majors in zoology and chemistry did not really prepare her to 
become a lab technician, which was her career goal after graduating.  She returned to Atlanta 
after graduation and spent a year working for the Georgia State Board of Health, where she 
learned laboratory techniques.  However, she adds, she would not have been able to get any kind 
of job in a lab without the experience she had at the UW.  She describes her experience at the 
UW as "very solid."

00:40:32  End of side.  End of interview.

End of Oral History #420