UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1048
RUGEN, JOYCE M. (DOUGHERTY)

Rugen, Joyce M. (Dougherty) (1930- )
Educator, X-Ray technician, housewife, cancer survivor
In Onalaska, WI: 1958-present
						
Interviewed: 2009 (8/1 & 8/2)	
Length: 1:32:54 minutes 
Interviewer: Liz Rendler
Index by: Liz Rendler

Abstract (all sessions): In her two 2009 interviews with her granddaughter, Liz Rendler, Joyce Rugen discussed her childhood and married life in Wilton, WI, and Onalaska, WI, respectively.  Rugen discussed the time period between the 1930s and 1970s.  This interview was conducted for Troy Reeves’ LIS 640—Oral History and Storytelling class (July 13, 2009—August 6, 2009).

Keywords (all sessions): Wilton, WI; farming; cows; Minneapolis, MN; education; Chicago, IL; large family; camping; parenting in the 70s; religion; Catholicism; breast cancer.

First Interview Session (August 1, 2009): Phone Interview (digital recording)

01:20	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

01:23	Question: Describe a typical day on the farm in Wilton.  Answer: She was age 10-12 when she remembers significant memories.  Children would get up at 6:30am to bring in the cows to the barn to milk.  Her and three of her siblings (John, Mary and Rose) would each milk three cows (father died of pneumonia when she was 7 or 8 years old).  Then the family would get ready for school at 9am.  Walked one mile to a one-room country school (25-30 class size).  No homework that she could recall but had to do book readings at home.  Evenings consisted of listening to radio programs (serials like Lone Ranger) and them it was time for chores in the barn.   In the summer, someone would have to bring in the cows from the pasture and in the winter, feed the cows from hay out of the haymow.  Each cow would get half a basket of silage from the silo.  Following the feedings was dinner, milking, and bed time at 9pm.
05:07	Question:  Did you grow attached to cows?  Answer: Every cow had a name and personality.  Her mother’s pet cow, “Heavy” was named for how much milk she gave, but she usually got cows that did not give as much milk.  There were occasions where she had the chance to milk “Heavy,” although cows were usually assigned.  She could not remember any other cow’s names other than they had “regular girl names.”

06:00	Question:  Just you and your sisters milking cows?  Where were your brothers?  Answer: Older brother milked, but younger brother was so much younger (8 years her junior) that he did not milk.  When she was 12 or 13 her family got an automatic milker, which lessened the workload and allowed for other chores, like cleaning the gutters or feeding the cows, to get done.  Her and her younger sister, Rose would milk.  It was a job she did all through high school.

06:50	Question: Without a father, what kinds of difficulties did your family have in running the farm?  Answer: The first problem was finding a hired man to fill in.  However, her mother was a “go to” woman and a better manager than her father was—especially with regards to obtaining expensive goods during the war years.  They had a hired man until her brother was old enough to take over the heavier lifting.  Her mother was very good with money—even their underwear was handmade.  They would get clothes from others that her mother and grandmother would remake to fit.  Some of these clothes came from cousins “out east.”  She was probably in 8th grade before she had a store bought dress.

08:35	Question: Did your mother teach you how to sew?  Answer: She doesn’t recall that she did.  Their mother always seemed so busy that they never saw her sew; however clothes always seemed to appear.  They participated in 4-H.

09:15	Question: What memories do you recall of your father?  Answer:  Memories are sketchy.  He was a tall, skinny man that would take her to church on Sundays and then afterwards, buy her an ice cream cone.  They would walk a mile to church.  Everyone always wanted to sit by dad at dinner, but prime spot was reserved for the youngest child.  She remembers getting bumped when her sister, Isabelle was born.  He had a red beard, but his hair was black—a full-blooded Irishman.  He would read them stories in the kitchen.

11:13	Question: What did you and siblings do for fun?  Answer: They went swimming in the creek, played house in the corncrib, went on walks up in the hills and carved their names/initials in the sandstone, and read.  Their mother encouraged reading.  They also played in the haymow on the rope swing and walked across the ceiling beams.

12:18	Question: Life after high school?  Answer:  Went to “normal” school where she learned how to be a teacher (2 year program).  Taught at a rural school for four years, although she didn’t like it.  Her aunt Susan suggested that she go to school in Minneapolis to become an X-Ray technician, which she liked.  She only worked at it a year before she met her future husband.  It was a “pleasant escape” from teaching school.

14:07	Question: What kinds of personal changes did you have to make to adjust to city life?  Answer: There were other rural kids in the same situation as her.  She was able to make friends with them and acclimatize to the city.  The school also placed students in homes where they could do housework.  She and two of her friends were placed on the same block.  She was placed with a Jewish family.  On their Sundays off, the three girls would spend time together seeing the city in her car.  It was a nice experience.

15:58	Question: How did you meet your husband?  Answer: With the same girls, she went to dances/mixers.  Whoever came next in line was whom you danced with.  Herb Rugen was one of these men.  Afterwards, he asked if he could sit down with her and her friends and bought them a drink.  He was there by himself and entertained the girls all evening.  Afterwards, he asked for her telephone number and she gave it to him—they soon started dating.

17:15	Question: Favorite date?  What sort of date was he?  Answer: He always thought of new things to do—movies, ski club, sightseeing through the churches in Minneapolis.  Dates were once a week on Sunday afternoons (her day off) because he worked about 100 miles away from the city.

18:38	Question: What kind of work did your job involve?  Answer: Light housework (vacuuming, cleaning the floors), and watching the couple’s three children in the evenings.  It still left plenty of time for studying.  They were very gracious.

19:24	Question: What sort of education did you have for your degree?  Answer: They had to learn the names of the bones in the body and other internal structures, although the hardest to learn were the names of the bones.  They also had to learn the mechanics of X-Ray machines.  No English classes, but mainly classes on mechanics.  It was only a one-year class.

21:04	Question: Did you have to pick between going to school and marriage?  Answer: She knew she was going to graduate and he proposed about half way through the program.  Her biggest goal in life was to get married and have a family not be an X-Ray technician.  She worked for a little less than a year at her profession before she got married.

22:08	Question: The proposal?  Answer: It was a funny night.  She usually parked in front of the house where she lived, but it was winter and because of the snow, had to park a few blocks away.  When Herb came to pick her up and saw her car was gone, he waited.  She was in the house waiting for him.  After the mix-up, their time together was short, so the proposal happened in the car and he was not on one knee.  She recalls she should have only agreed to the proposal if they could have had their honeymoon at Niagara Falls—a popular destination at the time.  He had already been there for work so they ended up honeymooning on a lake in Minnesota.  Not her ideal honeymoon.

24:53	Question: Impression of future in-laws?  Answer: They weren’t an average family.  She felt a wide difference between her rural upbringing and their city lives.  They were friendly and gave her lots of presents (perfume, stockings).  She thought they were different—“typical” Chicago vs. “typical” farm girl.  Question: How different were their personalities when compared with your family?  Answer: They were loud and wore lots of makeup.  She didn’t wear any makeup, which made her feel different, although, they did buy her makeup.  They colored/bleached their hair and had a tavern that was very profitable.  They had lots of clothes and “everything you could want”—she felt she was marrying into a rich family, coming from the farm.  Their makeup table in the hallway was filled with lots of products that she couldn’t understand the uses of or the need for.  She realized later that they had accumulated all their products, not unlike her own house today.  “It seemed like a different world.”

29:00	Question: Why marry into this family?  Answer: He was very outgoing—“a good catch.”  She felt like he had an opposite personality that complimented her well.  They got married in Wilton at a Catholic church and had the reception in the basement.  The party continued for the relatives at the farm, although they left early for their honeymoon to avoid the neighbors.  At the time, dances were customary.  Even if the whole town didn’t go to the wedding, they were invited to the dance.  However, they did not have a dance.

32:48	Question: What did you do afterwards?  Answer: He only had a two-week vacation (he installed radio equipment at airports for the government) and had to go back to work.  His first job was in Minneapolis where the couple found an unfinished, damp-smelling basement apartment (exposed rafters) that they lived in for three months.  They then moved to northern Wisconsin and rented a cabin for two or three months before finding better accommodations.  She soon got pregnant, so she was sensitive to any smells.  They bought a new mobile home, which made traveling around for jobs easier instead of having to find an apartment (they moved every three months).  Kathy was born in Moorhead and Barbara in Jamestown, ND, 17 months later.  They then bought a bigger trailer (two bedrooms).  After Herb Jr. was born, they bought a house in La Crosse, WI, which she still lives in today.  For three years, he would travel all week and be home on the weekends.

36:54	Question: Did your farm experiences in resourcefulness play any part in your role as a housewife?  Answer: Yes.  She had a garden, but no living room furniture until just before her father-in-law came to visit.  She did a lot of canning and freezing.  Powdered milk was used to stretch the milk supply.  They would mix powdered with regular in equal proportions, but the kids could tell.  They then took to mixing the milk three to one (regular vs. powdered) so that it wouldn’t be as obvious, unless the kids caught them doing the mixing.  Letting the mixture sit over night helped.

39:50	Question: Did you have date nights with so many kids?  Answer: Yes, but they hired a babysitter for 25 cents an hour.  He liked to go out with and without the kids, even if they did not buy anything (window shopping with the kids).  Since he was into electronics, they always had a working television in the house and he fixed a lot of friends’ televisions to earn extra money.

41:25	Question: Did you travel early in your marriage?  Answer: Other than traveling to find work, she could only remember instances when they went to Chicago/Glenview to visit her in-laws and once out to Colorado for a family reunion.  They owned a big van (that looked like a Conestoga wagon) and tent that they would use to camp with all the kids.  In Colorado, they stayed with her cousin in his garage and set the tent up so that even in inclement weather, they would be out of the elements.  They camped a lot in northern Wisconsin, Minnesota and close to home for family vacations, most weekends in the summer.  The older girls would have babysitting jobs and stay home for the week, but the younger kids would always go.  They would do a lot of fishing and boating or just be at the campsite cooking.

45:14	Question: What about the car, Puddins’?  Answer: The kids had a car that as it began to rust, Herb painted to make it look better.  He took a paint roller and painted it a light yellow, the color of vanilla pudding.  Usually the oldest drove it, but gave the others rides, although it wasn’t that far to walk, in her opinion.

47: 15	Question: How did your parenting change versus when you were a child?  Answer: It was totally different—brand named clothes, extra curricular activities.  Her kids were more outgoing compared to her.  They were more like their dad in that way.  Most were involved with sports and cheerleading.  Question: Was their more parent involvement?  Answer: There was, but they didn’t do much of it.  They did get to some sports events, but mostly stayed home.  Her husband’s father didn’t get to one of his son’s activities—he always had to hitchhike home from practices and games, which is why he wanted the kids to have a car.  Question: What activity did you like the most? Answer: Track meets and basketball games.  The hardest for her husband to attend were the basketball games because of the noise.  Question: How did a lack of choices in extra curricular activities impact your daughters?  Answer: They were more outgoing in other areas (cheerleading, debate team).  She never got the sense that the girls were angry about their lack of choices.

52: 23	Question: Final thoughts?  Answer: Her relationship with Jesus and how it changed.  Charismatic Renewal was coming into vogue and awakened her.  It made Jesus real to her—a big conversion.  She learned that life has a purpose and enjoys sharing with others.  The biggest and most amazing change in her life.  Question: She grew up Catholic.  Answer: Services changed from Latin to English, although it was still more of a social gospel than a “bible based truth.”  Learned that faith should be based on the written word of God, but Catholic Church did not practice this, so she left the church.  Question: How did it help you through the difficult times?  Answer: It was like a bright light came on.  She didn’t seek happiness in others or in material goods, but in her faith.  She felt desperate and alone after her breast cancer diagnosis (age 38).  She felt like it was a death sentence and was fearful.  She was determined to get better after her doctors told her.  Question: Did your doctors feel you were a good candidate for survival?  Answer: Yes, they were very encouraging and never said it was terminal.  They felt confident they would get it all and were successful.  There was X-Ray treatments but no chemotherapy or radiation treatments available.

1:01:10 End of First Interview Session

NOTE: A second interview session was held on August 2, 2009. It was not recorded, therefore notes have not been saved.