UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #570
DAUN, ROBERT J.

DAUN, Robert J. (1936 -)
WARF Laboratories
At WARF: 1959-1996

Interviewed: 2001	
Interviewer: Barry Teicher
Length: 4 hours, 5 minutes

Robert Daun talks about his childhood and education in De Pere, Wisconsin, his work at WARF Laboratories with Phil Derse, and his early work in a number of areas such as vitamin chemistry, cancer screening, and custom synthesis services. He talks briefly about Collin Schroeder and his work. He continues to talk about the various fields of work that WARF undertook while he was there, including vitamin D, pesticide screening and analysis, nutrition, the Internal Revenue Service, guidelines such as the Association of Official Analytical Chemist research method, and federal regulations and guidelines, work with nitrosamines; sugar research, and the Red Three studies. He ends by outlining the sales of WARF Labs to Ralston Purina, then to Hazleton Labs, and Corning. 
Keywords:WARF Laboratories, pesticides, vitamin chemistry, contract laboratories, Ralston Purina, Hazleton Labs, Corning.

First Interview Session (October 9, 2001): Tapes 1-2

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:27	Question: Let's talk a little bit about your childhood and early schooling. Answer: Robert Daun (RD) talks about his childhood and education.  He attended St. Norbert’s College in De Pere, Wisconsin. 

00:03:48	Question: What made you turn your interest towards chemistry? Answer: An interest in science began as early as high school, recalls RD. 

00:07:10	Question: When did you start thinking about what comes after college? Answer: Upon finishing college, RD desired to pursue a career as a chemist, but did not know much about post-graduate education.  

00:09:05	No question: RD talks about Larry Motiff, a professor at St. Norbert’s College.

00:11:05	Question: It's 1958, you've just graduated, what are you doing? Answer: After failing to find a position as a chemist, RD taught chemistry at a Catholic high school.  RD explains that he came to UW-Madison after one year of teaching to take a few classes.  

00:14:20	Question: Where did you pursue employment opportunities? Answer: RD discusses his job search for a chemist position.  He was offered a part-time position by Phil Derse at Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation (WARF).  

00:18:24	No question: RD talks about Rachel Carson and her book on the pesticide DDT.  

00:20:29	Question: Let's talk a little bit about WARF in general? Answer: RD describes WARF.  He talks about the location and WARF’s buildings. The chemistry laboratory, where he worked, was in the basement.  

00:23:53	Question: Tell me what you can about the directors. Answer: Although he had little contact with them, RD discusses the three managing directors of WARF: Ward Ross, Edwin Rosten, and John Pike. 

00:26:16	Question: What was Phil Derse's position in the labs? Answer: RD talks about Phil Derse and his role at WARF Labs.  He discusses Derse's background and his aid in the growth of WARF.  

00:30:39	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:31:02	No question: He talks about the lab’s work involving Vitamin D.  

00:32:39	Question: How much of what you worked on was directly related to UW? Answer: UW had affiliations with WARF, but RD says that his department in the WARF Labs did not involve work at UW.

00:33:38	Question: There were two chemistry departments at that point? Answer: RD talks about the chemistry department and Fran Coon.  He discusses Coon's role with consumer companies.

00:35:51	Question: Talk a little bit about vitamin chemistry. Answer: RD discusses the vitamin chemistry department of WARF.  This department analyzed the vitamin content in foods.  He continues to discuss other departments and their managers.  

00:39:42	Question: Let's talk about Bernie Kline. Answer: Bernie Kline was the manager of the cancer screening lab, RD recalls.  RD describes the research done in the department of cancer screening, some results of which are used in chemotherapy procedures.  

00:43:41	No question: RD talks about Phil Derse and the company Derse and Collin Schroeder founded.  RD goes on to discuss Schroeder and his work.  Schroeder had a machine in his office which measured the concentration of chemical compounds in plain polarized light.  

00:48:50	Question: You mentioned Maria Burger, tell me briefly about her. Answer: RD discusses Maria Burger and her work with science and microbiology.  

00:51:03	Question: Talk about Lloyd for a moment. Answer: Lloyd Hein was in charge of the Vitamin D bioacia studies in the WARF Lab.  RD talks about Hein's work with rats and Vitamin D. 

00:53:59	No question: RD describes Gilbert Schmolesky and his research in the pesticide screening department where products such as Off and Raid were tested.  He also researched and studied the nutritional facts of food items for McDonald's.

00:56:58	Question: So there was sort of a veil of secrecy in a sense? Answer: RD notes the sensitive nature of some of the research at WARF. 

00:59:07	Question: After Gilbert we get to Wendell Mathews? Answer: Wendell Mathews was involved in personnel affairs at WARF, says RD. 

00:59:47	Question: And Don Murphy? Answer: RD talks about Don Murphy and the bacteriology department. 

01:00:57	End of side.  End of tape.  

Tape 2/Side 1

01:01:05	Question: The next name is Bill Goetz. Answer: RD explains the work of Bill Goetz with insect fragments. 

01:03:16	Question: And the last name is Henry Scott. Answer: RD talks about Henry Scott who was in charge of the milk analysis.  He talks about Dr. Steenbock and his involvement with WARF.

01:05:14	Question: Were you aware of the workings of the board at all? Answer: RD discusses the UW Board of Trustees and how it was separate from WARF.    

01:06:50	Question: In what ways did WARF and the WARF lab interact with each other? Answer: There was little interaction between WARF foundation and WARF labs, says RD.

01:08:29	Question: Did a sense of community develop within the lab? Answer: RD talks about the community feeling at WARF labs.  When he started his position at WARF labs, employees numbered forty or fifty.  It was easy to become acquainted with the other employees and their families.  

01:10:38	Question: Were there any significant changes in either the philosophy or the operation of the lab over the years? Answer: RD discusses the changes at WARF over the years.  He says the biggest change was in size and research capability.  He describes studying the 900 calorie diet for its nutritional values for eight weeks.  

01:16:09	Question: Discuss the finances of WARF lab, was it self sustaining? Answer: RD discusses the finances at WARF.  He assumed the lab was doing well financially, but he never knew for certain.

01:18:49	Question: Was there any indication that there were changes in the WARF lab? Answer: WARF had to resolve an issue concerning the Internal Revenue Service.   RD talks about the status of WARF as a non-profit organization and the technical meetings which WARF employees were invited to attend.  

01:22:32	Question: What were your first tasks at WARF? Answer: The first task RD had was to analyze a sample of pyrethrin using an Association of Official Analytical Chemist (AOAC) method.  He describes the AOAC method and its effectiveness.

01:26:56	No question: Amino Triazole was the focus of another task and required much research and preparation, says RD.  

01:31:44	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2

01:32:43	No question: RD talks about the machines he used in the labs.

01:35:30	Question: Discuss the detection of trace elements. Answer: RD discusses the learning of in-house methods for the detection of trace elements in food and feed products.  These included toxicants such as mercury and selenium and nutrients such as calcium, magnesium and phosphorus.  

01:38:19	No question: RD talks about pesticide analysis.  He says the lab measured for DDT and phosphate pesticides which are extremely toxic. 

01:44:17	Question: What about competition [of contract labs] in the central Wisconsin area? Answer: There was little competition for WARF in Wisconsin because it was a hard business to run.  RD says that they did have to compete with organizations in the Chicago area. 

01:47:11	Question: Could you address the issue of contract method development? Answer: RD discusses contract method development.  He says that his speciality was the development of analytical methods for pharmaceuticals and pesticides, which are called xerobiotics.  

01:54:00	Question: Could you talk about the determination of natural toxicants in foods? Answer: The determination of natural toxicants in food is the next area of analysis which RD describes.  He talks about aflatoxins, which are very potent carcinogens and the experiments WARF ran to search for aflatoxins in peanut butter.  

01:59:25	Question: Let's talk about ag chemical residue projects for registration. Answer:  RD talks about the ag chemical residue projects for registration.  

02:02:42	End of side.  End of tape.  

Second Interview Session (October 16, 2001): Tapes 3-4

Tape 3/Side 1

00:00:16	Question: Could you give us an approximation of the time span when these studies took place? Answer: RD specifies that all of the studies he has discussed took place from the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s. 

00:01:10	Question: Could you talk about the routinely ignored re-registration studies? Answer: RD discusses the routinely ignored re-registration studies.  He says the studies were not  ignored by the government because the government wanted a study repeated about every five years in case of new findings.  He talks about the government rules and regulation for the lab.

00:07:48	Question: Did the EPA make any suggestions for these projects? Answer: RD discusses the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and their guidelines affecting WARF.  He says that his major contact with the EPA was through the agricultural chemicals and other toxic substances which could be released into the environment.  

00:12:34	Question: Did you notice any significant difference in the way the FDA and the EPA operated? Answer: There are certain differences between the FDA and the EPA.  Initially, says RD, there were only minor differences, but the agencies grew more distinctive over time.  

00:14:02	Question: Was the oversight by the EPA reasonable? Answer: RD talks about regulation by the EPA.  He discusses being given six months to run a test for a major company which was originally given twenty-four months to do the same tests.

00:17:54	Question: What about government contracts and state contracts? Answer: RD discusses federal government contracts and state contracts.  One of the major state contracts WARF had was with New York, which was then at the forefront of environmental control.  Although they did not specialize in doing federal work, WARF did a number of large studies, one involving strawberry testing.  

00:24:14	Question: What exactly is California Proposition 65? Answer: RD talks about California Proposition 65, which had to do with protecting consumers from exposure to cancer-causing materials.  He says he and other employees made trips to California as consultants; all lab work was done at WARF labs.  

00:30:11	Question: One we haven't talked about is PCBs in cereal and cake packaging. Answer: RD describes the crisis of PCBs in cereal and cake mix packaging.  The cardboard used for the boxes of these products was made from recycled paper, which contained PCBs.

00:30:47	End of side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:30:48	RD continues to discuss the PCBs in cereal and cake mix boxes made from recycled paper which got into the cereal and cake mix. The testing for these involved analyzing the boxes and making cakes to analyze.  

00:34:31	Question: You also worked with nitrosamines? Answer: The next issue RD covers is nitrosamines in beer, bacon and cosmetic products.  He talks about studying all types of cosmetic products including shampoo. After WARF had the cosmetics under control, nitrosamines were found in beer, appearing in the malting process. Nitrosamines were also found in bacon, which was preserved with nitrates. When it was fried at too high a temperature, nitrosamines formed.  

00:46:13	Question: You worked on the Michigan PBB? Answer: RD talks about the Michigan polybrominated bifinnels situation, a problem created by Michigan Chemical Company.  

00:51:17	Question: You didn't often go to UW faculty for assistance? Answer: Although WARF Labs did not work closely with UW faculty, there were a few contacts with the toxicology department.

00:53:35	Question: What about saccharin and cyclamate? Answer: RD discusses saccharin and cyclamate studies in the sugar market.  He talks about the studies to find out if these chemicals were harmful and the few human studies they did.  

00:59:10	Question: You also did sugar refinery work? Answer: RD describes the work WARF did for sugar refineries.  He says WARF made a contract with sugar refineries guaranteeing constant availability of WARF personnel if problems arose.

01:01:32	End of side.  End of tape.  

Tape 4/Side 1

01:01:33	No question: RD continues to discuss sugar refinery work at WARF.  He talks about sugar work in New Orleans, which led to a trip there for employees. 

01:03:07	Question: And the Red Three studies? Answer: RD talks about the Red Three studies. Red Three is used to die cherries red.  

01:06:03	Question: In 1966 the WARF Labs were transferred to WARF, Inc.. How did that come about? Answer: WARF Labs became WARF, Inc. at one time.  RD discusses the WARF Institution, which was a for-profit entity.  He talks about financial aspects of WARF.  

01:09:58	Question: In 1973 you moved to the old Sage building, what was the old Sage building? Answer: RD describes the facility move in 1973 to the old Sage building, an air force facility located near the airport.  

01:17:45	Question: Why was the purchase by Ralston Purina made? Answer: RD talks about the sale of WARF, Inc. to Ralston Purina in 1978.  One reason for the sale  was that the institute was not highly profitable.  He says the sale did not have a big impact on his position, but a noticeable difference was the stock purchase plan of Ralston Purina. 

01:25:28	Question:  After just five years, Ralston decided to divest some of these things, was that because of a change in management? Answer: RD discusses change of management in the different divisions of Ralston Purina.  He says that the main division was the grocery division.

01:28:13	Question: Tell me a little bit about Hazelton Labs. Answer: The buyer of Ralston Purina was Hazleton Labs of Virginia.  RD describes the new emphasis on toxicology.  He talks about why Hazleton bought the lab.  

01:32:17	End of side. 

Tape 4/Side 2

01:32:18	No question: Even though Hazleton Labs was international, they were a relatively small company.  He  talks about an argument he had with the management over the way the lab should be run.

01:34:13	No question: RD discusses Don Nelson and Kerbie Kramer, the two owners of Hazelton Labs.  

01:35:02	No question: RD describes the sale of the company to Corning and the new ownership.  He expresses his  opinion concerning the reasons behind the sale.  

01:37:09	No question: RD talks about the quality assurance at Corning.  He says that they had a quality improvement opportunity form for employees.  He talks about the corrective action committee, on which he served for a number of years.  

01:47:24	Question: How did the sale of Corning come about? Answer: Corning ended the sale of some of its products such as glassware, RD recalls.  He says that the company turned to fiber optics and research to enhance fiber optics.  Corning had to emphasize areas that were making money, which resulted in redirecting their work towards pharmaceuticals.  

01:51:43	Question: When did you decide to retire? Answer: RD talks about his decision to retire in 1996. He discusses his relationships with his supervisors throughout his career.  

01:55:16	No question: Corning was sold to two companies, Quest Diagnostics and Covance.  RD discusses this sale and the specialties of the two new companies.  

01:59:14	Question: Do you have any closing comments? Answer: RD makes his closing comments on his life and his career at WARF.

02:02:16	End of side.  End of tape.

END of Oral History #570