UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #1180
PHILLIPS, BEVERLY “BEV”

PHILLIPS, BEVERLY “BEV” (1949 - )
Land Tenure Center, 1978-2003; UW-Madison Libraries, 2003-2011
At UW: 1978-2011

Interviewed: 	2011 (3 sessions)
Interviewer: 	Troy Reeves 
Index by: 	Troy Reeves
Length: 	2 hour, 53 minutes

Abstract: In three 2011 interviews (2 in November, 1 in December) with Troy Reeves, Beverly “Bev” Phillips detailed her thoughts and memories as a librarian with the Land Tenure Center and the UW-Madison General Library System. Phillips spoke of the following decades: 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, and 2010s and on the following topics: University of Illinois Library School; UW-Madison Land Tenure Center; international travel; UW-Madison General Library System. Phillips also discussed how technology changed librarianship over her nearly 35 years in the field. This interview was conducted for inclusion into the oral history collection at the UW-Madison Archives. 

Key Words: University of Illinois Graduate School of Library and Information Science; UW-Madison Land Tenure Center; UW-Madison General Library System: Y2K; 9/11/2001

First Interview Session (November 14, 2011): Digital File

Time	Keywords

00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction. 

00:00:40	Question: Early years? Answer: Although Beverly “Bev” Phillips (BP) spent most of early years, including college, in Urbana, IL, she was born in 1949 in Mesa, AZ and spent some time in San Francisco. She graduated high school in 1967 and undergraduate in 1970 from the University of Illinois (UIL). She also received advanced degrees from UIL, including a degree in library science. Since she grew up during the Vietnam War era, the interviewer asked her about the war. She personally opposed the war, but she grew up in a very conservative place and household; while it did not stop her from arguing with her parents, she participated in no protests. She also discussed the pros and cons of living at home during her college career.

00:04:12	Question: Library as profession? Answer: BP took undergraduate courses to follow her interests or to take courses she enjoyed studying. She taught public school for one year; that job and enjoying teaching at a graduate school both made her realize that she did not want to teach public school. She took an advanced degree in Spanish and worked in one of the campus library. An Argentinean librarian served as BP’s mentor, and BP eventually earned another advanced degree in librarianship from UIL. BP never thought about going to school elsewhere for several reasons, including UIL’s top rank library school.

00:08:23	Question: Library school: courses/professors? Answer: BP offered the names of two professors, including her cataloging professor, who gave all her students basically 20 hours of homework per week. BP noted the benefits she gleaned from that professor and class. When asked about finally moving out of Illinois, BP followed her husband to Jackson, TN, where he earned a job. BP did not work the first year and “created” a job at a medical center the second year. Neither BP nor her husband wanted to stay in Jackson, so BP looked for employment. While she considered a job in Oklahoma, she applied, interviewed, and accepted a job at the Land Tenure Center (LTC) in Madison; she started in July 1978. At the time of her job hunt, she knew nothing about the LTC. 

00:13:12	Question: Land Tenure Center? Answer: BP won a national search for the job; she recalled the process, including a phone interview, where they asked her about working in developing countries. BP’s job, associate director of the LTC Library, started in the Steenbock Memorial Library, where they conducted this interview. She worked with two other full-time employees and catalogued as her initial, primary job. When asked how she learned about the LTC, she answered with the following ways: reading within the LTC’s collection, auditing some courses (agricultural economics mainly), attending brown bags, and taking French. 

00:18:54	Question: When did BV feel comfortable at LTC? Answer: BV, learning from her boss Teresa “Terry” Anderson, did original cataloging. BV told a story about Terry telling her son what she did; the story centered on helping someone find out about farming in Afghanistan, even though she knew nothing farming in Afghanistan. Terry left on vacation, leaving BV on her own. Her first reference question involved someone interested in farming in Afghanistan. When the interviewer asked about Terry as a boss, BP said she made the collection “what it was.” She made the final decision, but she allowed BP (and others) to lobby for different ways of doing things. Terry left LTC, worked at Steenbock Library for a bit then moved to Eau Claire, WI. When asked about other staff, BP noted one other co-worker, Patricia Frye, who BP called “very talented” and who eventually worked at MATC (Madison College). 

00:24:21	Question: Impressions of UW-Madison and Madison? Answer: BP never visited UW-Madison before moving there to work at the LTC. While at UIL BP said many held “UW envy,” so BP actually felt a bit disappointed about UW-Madison, because folks at UIL talked it up so much. As far as Madison itself, BP found it to be a nice place to live; in the late 1970s the downtown still held many, interesting shops and stores. She noted she has enjoyed Madison, because it has embraced its identity. When asked she offered a brief overview of the places she lived in Madison between 1978 and her brief hiatus in Latin American in 1985. 

00:28:16	Question: LTC, key events of first stint there? Answer: After spending the first years becoming familiar with her work, she started working on projects with people throughout the world. She talked about her first project with folks in Nicaragua. She discussed meeting with people who wanted to create a library within CIERA (Centro de Investigaciones y Estudios de la Reforma Agraria), an entity created after the rebels took over Nicaragua in the early 1980s. During this story BP used the term, “fugitive literature.” When asked about it, BP compared it to “grey” literature or unpublished material. This led BP to offer a brief history of why the LTC made a priority of having a library that collected “fugitive literature.” BP also made it clear that the LTC always wanted their collection to be open to anyone.  

00:33:37	Question: Did you travel during this first stint? Answer: Yes. BP traveled to Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, and Ecuador. She offered an overview of each of those trips and why she ended up traveling there. Her travel there stemmed from the way the LTC cobbled together money to work on projects with these Latin American country. 

00:37:06	Question: Did she fret travelling to Latin America? Answer: Never. She trusted the LTC to keep her safe. She offered one example about the LTC balking at travelling to El Salvador; during that trip a group who did travel suffered a casualty, a person was shot. BP trusted LTC even more after that. When asked about other thoughts about this first LTC stint, BP noted she served as acting director of the LTC Library at one point, while Terry served as acting director of Steenbock Library. The LTC did not rehire BP’s position during this stretch.

00:40:29	Question: Why did BP’s LTC’s stint end in 1985? Answer: BP talked about the funding situation at LTC in the mid-1980s. The LTC wanted two librarians, but they could not afford them. During this situation BP took two positions out of the country: one in St. Croix, the other in two locations in Mexico. She noted she received some valuable management experience in St. Croix and teaching experience (English for Spanish librarians) in Mexico City. 

00:43:17	Question: How did BP get back to LTC? Answer: While in Mexico Terry left the LTC to work at Steenbock, leaving a void in the library director’s position. The LTC head, Marian Brown, contacted BP to let her know that she needed to apply for the job immediately. BP explained the process to apply for the job long distance, including typing her application via the telex machine. BP earned the LTC director’s job and started it after she finished her work in Mexico.

00:46:02	Question: LTC Library Director? Answer: BP talked about the Library’s desire to get the catalog out to the world, using new technology. BP told the story about the difficulties involved in creating an online catalog, including initially starting with an agreement with the National Agriculture Library and concluding with BP working with MAC (DoIT’s forerunner) to eventually create an online catalog of the LTC’s materials. 

00:49:39	Question: Who did this work? Answer: While students and librarians did some of the work with BP training and supervising, she did most of the online catalog work with the folks at MAC. When asked if she liked it, she said yes, because it served as an extension of the library’s goal: getting material to users, because before this effort, people could not find this information easily. 

00:52:12	Question: Final questions & thoughts? Answer: When asked BP noted that the LTC Library was housed still in Steenbock and she moved to an apartment near Hilldale Mall for the first few years back in Madison. BP focused her final thoughts on the idea that the LTC library never shared space with LTC’s leadership. This gave them some independence. She finished by noting that the library staff worked well with LTC faculty and the graduate students, earning their PhDs in Development Studies.  

00:55:30	End of First Interview Session

Second Interview Session (November 23, 2011): Digital File

Time	Keywords

00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction. 

00:00:40	Question: More about online catalog? Answer: Beverly “Bev” Phillips (BP) added material to her comments on creating an online catalog for the Land Tenure Center (LTC) Library. When she returned to the LTC, she realized they had added no cards to the card catalog, but they kept shelf list cards and computer tapes updated. BP noted the tapes set the stage for the online card catalog. Phillips also created a book catalog, taking the key material from the OCLC cards, to further help patrons in the pre-online catalog era. 

00:02:45	Question: Successes during her LTC Library Director tenure (1985-1996)? Answer: When she took over, she found a reduced staff (her former position was gone). But they still continued acquiring books and one of kind material. She focused on several key issues. First, a proposed LTC merge with the General Library System (GLS), but the then GLS Director left. So, the plan fell through. Second, she took an active role in a special libraries group. She furnished some information about the group, which helped in the pre-online catalog days of sharing information and added a new job title, special librarian, to the campus job list. 

00:06:57	[No question.] The third item was retrospective conversion. She talked about joining an international consortium, which allowed her to bring in temporary staff to help convert their Latin American collection to the online card catalog. She then briefly touched on the fourth success, the collaboration with Steenbock to get the LTC collection more used. She returned to more discussion about retrospective conversion or “retcon.” Once the funding ended for the international project, BP took cataloging records home to continue the retcon, as well as some weeding of duplicate records. When asked about to define retroactive conversion, BP explained it as taking the master card and inputting the specifics into MARC format to make it readable to an online catalog. It also offered her a chance to do quality control. With the international project and BP’s “homework,” they converted about 25,000 books and about the same amount of one-of-a-kind material. And while a lot of their collection came from Latin America, they also collected post-Soviet Bloc material and American Indian material. 

00:12:45	Question: Challenges or failures during her tenure? Answer: BP called money the biggest and most constant challenge. This came clearer when federal policy changed and the LTC focused on specific projects in specific locales. This made broad acquisition for the LTC more problematic. She also reiterated the failure to more fully integrate the LTC Library into the larger GLS. 

00:14:55	Question: Overview of BP’s management of library? Answer: During most of her tenure, she still hired student hourly employees and a half-time Library Technical Assistant. She gave a brief overview of what she tasked both the students and the LTA. When an LTC project included funding for some type of library component, BP could hire graduate students, usually in Library School or Development Studies, to help her collect and process material gathered as part of that project. She noted during this time the LTC Library received state funds to acquire material, through the GLS. And the GLS oversaw the ordering and paying of those materials. The LTC Library still acquired material either by asking for a free copy or by exchanging LTC publications for an entity’s similar in-house publications. 

00:18:13	Question: How did BP, through the LTC Library, “ferret out” material? Answer: BP depicted several ways they acquired material, including making agreement with book dealers in developing countries, scouring acquisition lists from other libraries with a geographic focus, looking through relevant abstracts (BP gave a couple specific examples here), and using faculty donations or contacts. BP offered two more things here. First, the LTC Library had a collection development policy to make sure that material donated to them but not in their bailiwick went somewhere else on campus. And, second, the relationship with book dealers in developing countries was problematic for a couple reasons, which BP listed. When asked for an example of good find, BP could not recall one, because they worked hard to develop a rich collection of one of a kind material or books where they held one of only few known copies in a U.S. library or archives.

00:24:38	Question: What BP learned about management from being in a “one-person shop,” i.e. a small library? Answer: In this situation her management style arose in creating training materials, working with new staff one on one, and building trust with the staff. She felt fortunate to work inside Steenbock Library to learn from one of their techniques: learn a student’s strength(s) then build his/her work to play to them. She said the biggest challenge became finding time for her vacations, due the vagaries of the academic year and summer and her students/staff schedules. When asked if she continued professional relationships with graduate students, BP commented that she kept in touch with many students after their work for her or research in the LTC Library. This included graduate students who worked in Environmental Studies. 

00:29:47	Question: Travel outside U.S. during this time? Answer: BP answered this question by focusing on the challenges with LTC project funding. They would build in library funding in the project planning and then often not get it. When they did get project funding, BP would either travel to a locale, the librarians would come to UW-Madison, or both. She talked about two specific projects she thought earned some measure of success (Nicaragua & South America). Both instances happened after major changes in each country, adding layers of funding and enthusiasm that helped each effort. Also, BP worked with competent librarians in those countries that greatly assured the project’s success and longevity. 

00:35:36	Question: Library Integration, 1994-1997? Answer: BP noted that another reason for her to do some retroactive conversion at home (besides getting the information online) was preparing for her library’s integration into the GLS, because she knew it would come soon. She felt that if she did as much “leg work” as possible before the conversion, the GLS would be more apt to incorporate the LTC material easier, plus there would be little desire to purge material, because of its inaccessibility in an online-catalog world. BP then described the LTC’s funding issues, which led to funding for library staff and eventually closure of the library. BP’s issues with the integration were different than the LTC’s. Eventually, most of the material went to the GLS (Steenbock) with some material going to Memorial Library and to the Law Library. This integration did lead to some duplicate material being stored or purged, which the LTC leadership stomached poorly. BP locked the doors, so to speak, and moved in with the LTC staff. She did return to Steenbock to argue to keep multiple copies of some material, because Steenbock held, in those cases, all of most all of a certain work. So, for example, to purge 3 of 4 copies of a book that only had 5 copies in libraries anywhere made little sense. 

00:42:18	Question: Were you satisfied with the result (integration)? Answer: She felt satisfied with the process; she worked well with the Steenbock (and other library) staff. And she set up good procedures to aid in the transition. With her shift into the LTC main office, she still held acquisition and exchange program responsibilities. She felt less satisfied due to a decrease in staff support, although she noted that she kept some student staff, and due to a decrease in acquiring material outside of a specific-project focus. When asked about her new physical location, she told the interviewer that at that time the LTC was housed in the old Rennebohm’s building (now on the Wisconsin Institute of Discovery footprint. She finished this section with two thoughts. First, it appeared to her that the LTC moved on, meaning they did not miss the library; BP, on the other hand, moved into her new office with dirty dishes on its table and a sense of loss. Second, she kept her official title of Special Librarian, although her working title, with LTC approval changed. 

00:47:55	Question: How did it feel (and did you work) as a librarian without an official library? Answer: BP could not recall specific changes, because she worked at many similar tasks, albeit in a different location. She missed, however, the interaction with graduate students and Steenbock staff. She jumped into getting the LTC publications in digital format; she worked with a group from University of Minnesota, which led to an eventually LTC website, which BP then took parts of it over as part of her job description. She also noted here that she put the LTC’s acquisition list online, giving to faculty and others via email. This led the interviewer to ask about the burgeoning electronic or digital component of libraries during this time period. BP answered by noting that electronic and/or digital change occurred throughout her time as a librarian. She tried to use new technologies to answer this question: Will its use make access better? She offered the constant problem of technology: great ideas with little money or staff to implement them. 

00:53:13	Question: Impact of the LTC Library? Answer: BP started by calling it a special library in a real sense. She loved working in it. She noted that while the LTC published a couple dozen items a year, the LTC library added around 1,500 items to its collection yearly. They collected and developed, creating a subject expertise. She noted that this library served users in the pre-internet age, meaning they needed to develop indexes to collection for people (including other librarians) to find and use. BP stated that regardless of the user, this library provided a place to learn from not only campus researchers but also folks from the U.S. and the world. When asked for her final thoughts, BP said she would probably think of things to add between now and the 3rd interview. 

00:57:06	End of Second Interview Session

Third Interview Session (December 7, 2011): Digital File

Time	Keywords

00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction.

00:00:42	Question: More on technology and its meaning for libraries? Answer: Beverly Phillips (BP) answered this question by saying they could not digitize the Land Tenure Collection because of copyright issues. So, they made finding aids and indexes available online. She reminded the interviewer about her (and her staff’s) work to get their card catalog into the online catalog. 

00:02:51	Question: More on website? Answer: BP also talked about the LTC website, including the initial work on it, publishing print bibliographies, geographically focused. She called it part of the Training in Method (?) series, including only material that was held in a physical location, i.e. a library. BP continued to discuss the transformation of the collection into electronic and digital formats, including her work with software to generate digital bibliographies and to get newly published LTC works in electronic format.

00:07:40	Question: Did you work with other GLS Librarians, including those at Steenbock, when working in LTC’s home office? BP worked primarily with the GLS folks in Central Technical Services, both at Memorial and Steenbock Libraries. The GLS folks would send material to BP to evaluate, and she could do some GLS-related work from her office, because they gave her a computer with access to their software. 

00:09:54	Question: Can you elaborate on the relationship between librarians and faculty? She would answer questions from either other librarians or faculty via email or over the phone. The faculty would send students directly to BP for her to help them with their research. 

00:11:26	Question: Were you involved in GLS activities? Answer: Not so much, she said, basically because when she moved to the LTC office she moved away from the interactions with the Steenbock staff. The interviewer then asked a follow-up about being involved in campus-wide activities, committees, groups. BP said not really, either. She talked about her work on the LTC website and doing basic computer maintenance and updates to the LTC’s computer.  

00:14:45	Question: Could you elaborate on Y2K? Answer: BP admitted she held little concern about Y2K. The campus (and state) wide planning & collaboration that went into Y2K ended up being good for IT in general. 

00:15:54	Question: Could you offer your memories of 9/11/2001? Answer: BP talked first about the day itself. She listened to NPR that morning and heard NPR host Tom Clarke talking to someone in NYC about the event. When BP got to work, she and other LTC staff went to a bar and watch the events on TV. She then described the effects of the day and beyond. Muslim students always ended up at the LTC, working and doing research. BP, at the time, had a student from Malaysia. BP feared that her student would be a target; the student told BP that her fear was the skyscrapers in Malaysia would be attacked. The student told BP that she received rude comments on the bus. BP finished up this question by talking about how the tragedy increased her awareness of Muslims and the Muslim community and her knowledge about how much tougher it became for international students to travel here to study. 

00:20:54	Question: Could you talk about your international travel during this period (1996-2003)? BP, during this period with the LTC, traveled to El Salvador and Chad. She started with her memories on the trip to El Salvador. She offered the details and outputs of that consultation, including the digital preservation of some materials with triplicate copies, one for them, one for LTC, and one for the Agricultural Library in DC. She then talked briefly about her trip/work in Chad; she focused on two things: the reason for going (to get a better understanding of their national library) and her attempts to communicate in French.

00:25:48	Question: Why move to Steenbock in 2003? Answer: BP noted that she and others at the LTC worked under layoff notices quite a bit. She learned that she could get priority consideration at other libraries on campus. So when the last, for her, layoff notice came, it triggered for her and others not only a grievance, which she and the staff eventually won, but also a serious look at other campus libraries. She did not want to be just anywhere; she saw a notice for a librarian at Steenbock and went for it. She used her priority consideration “chip,” and got an interview. They hired her. Steenbock appealed to her for two reasons: the bulk of the LTC collection was there and the desire to work at a library with myriad professional and quasi-professional staff with which to interact and collaborate. 

00:29:27	Question: What were your primary tasks at Steenbock? They hired her as an Information Services Librarian. She listed 4 primary functions. First, she taught students both formally and on a drop-in basis, primarily how to use bibliographic software. She served as a liaison to other departments, “up her alley,” such as Rural Sociology and the Nelson Institute. She also served on a selectors’ team for work akin to what she selected while at LTC. She eventually became the lead liaison for the College of Agriculture and Life Science.  

00:32:21	Question: Could you describe your adjustment to returning to Steenbock? Answer: BP liked the change. And she liked the timing of her leaving LTC. She knew most of the Steenbock librarians and held good relationships with most of them. She talked about two downsides: first, her priority hire status did rub folks the wrong way for a bit. Second, many of her colleagues assumed she had knowledge of the GLS, even though she never worked for the campus libraries.  

00:35:25	Question: What about your highlights & lowlights while at Steenbock? Answer: The challenges were staff related, meaning when staff retired, not all those positions were re-hired. In general, her time in Steenbock was positive. She then talked about Steenbock throughout her eight years there. She talked about incremental change (GLS) versus project base projects (LTC), about returning to a place with direct interaction with faculty, staff, students, and about learning about the breadth of Steenbock’s collection. She also discussed starting the liaison program, adding IM to reference, and working on committees that broadened her understanding of the campus. She finished this section with noting that she always liked the IT stuff and that she always wished that Steenbock space could have been refigured better, although she said that they did integrate the service desks into one location.

00:40:31	Question: GLS in 2011 versus GLS in 2003? Answer: Over those years the GLS worked to become more efficient. She talked about the benefits (making people work together) and challenges (loss of specialization and subject experts). She noted that loss effected Steenbock greatly. BP also furnished the challenges involved in committee work, including not being sure about long-term goals; she never felt comfortable in knowing the big picture. She said the mantra of “doing more with less” does not work as a long-term strategy. Last, she felt librarians needed to explain how they fit into the educational system.

00:45:36	Question: Changes in librarianship between the 1970s and today? She started with her mantra as using technology of a tool and has, overall, been good for librarians. In terms of teaching and learning, librarians could show clearly, pre-internet, that they helped student and faculty to learn by giving them access to information. Today, she felt faculty did not have a clear idea of librarians’ role on campus.  

00:49:09	[No question.] BP argued here that librarians, against people’s perception, always took the lead in technology; they used computers as early as non-IT profession. In the last few years, students have come to campus with digital knowledge; for librarians it has come with pros and cons. They can find information, so they think they do not need librarians. It has boiled down, for BP, to answering the question: What skills can librarians pass onto students & faculty. 

00:52:16	Question: What should the hiring committee look for in new library director? Answer: BP started with one word: perfection. She then went into a more serious discussion about a person with good communication skills, administrative experience and expertise, knowledge of campus educational mission and skill of putting libraries into the heart of that mission. She talked about the current library leadership and  continued listing attributes of a new director: thinking about an administrative structure that works for him/her, needing to make change but listening and learning to get the libraries’ collective pulse, creating a long-term plan, and admitting if something does not work and tweaking or stopping it. 

00:55:49	Question: Why retire in 2011? BP turned 62 in November 2011. She figured she would retire at or around 65. In 2008 her move to Steenbock offered no financial betterment. In the last few years, she suffered through furlough and raises promised but not delivered. When Governor Walker unfurled his plan in early 2011, she liked the no furloughs but knew she would contribute more in retirement and health care. Speaking of health care, the possibility that the state would not take away the sick leave conversion benefit became the last straw. So, she called retirement a personal & financial decision and the right one. 

01:00:07	Question: Final thoughts? Answer: Since she retired, she has spent more attention on her house. She liked that she retired from Steenbock, since that gave her a support group of cohorts, many of whom have retired in the last few years, too. She concluded by saying that she “appreciated the opportunity” and the people at both Steenbock and LTC.

01:02:14	End of Third Interview Session.

End of Oral History #1180