UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #239
ADOLFSON, LORENTZ H.

ADOLFSON, Lorentz H. (1909-1985)
Graduate Student, Political Science; Dean of General Extension; Chancellor of Center System
At UW: 1937-1972

Interviewed: 1983	
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 1.5 hours

Background; Appointment as associate director of Extension; Extension in 1930s; Bringing School for Workers into Extension; Working with E. B. Fred; Institute and conference program; Associating Extension departments with campus departments; Growth of Centers after WWII; Responsibilities of local communities; Relationship with deans; Competition with state colleges; Working with Fred Harvey Harrington; Chancellors' meetings; Student protest movement; Deans' meetings with Fred; Adolfson's opposition to Extension Merger; More on presidents; Homosexual cases; Extension budget; Courses; Retirement activities; Correspondence courses.

Tape 1/Side 1
			
00:00:01	Interviewer’s introduction. Background, early education, and decision to pursue graduate school at UW-Madison. 

00:05:28	After he received his degree, Clarence Dykstra called him in and talked to him for an hour.  He called again following day and asked him if he wanted to be an administrator.  LA said he really didn't, he wanted to teach.  John Gaus, LA's major professor, was a close friend of Dykstra's.  Dykstra wanted to move present dean out of extension, but he didn't know who to replace him with.  Gaus said, "I have just the man for you."  LA was thirty-five when he took job as dean of extension.  LA replaced Frank Holt.  Holt didn't seem to have a feeling for what Extension could be.  It was a correspondence study program at that time.  Freshman-sophomore centers which Extension set up in thirties didn't really become significant until after WWII.  LA doesn't know why Dykstra wanted to replace Holt.  

00:10:54	LA became acting associate director of Extension.  Dykstra left three or four months after LA took job.  Describes experience of suddenly taking on a big responsibility.  Acquainted himself with job.  Already knew quite a few people in Extension.  Then he started to think about what he was going to do with Extension. 

00:14:06	Dykstra tried to get School for Workers under Extension.  Dykstra said for him to get in touch with Schwartztrauber and they talked about what they were doing and what they could do.  Schwartztrauber was an idealist and a dreamer.  He had great vision and hope for School for Workers, but he was not a good administrator.  In eyes of administration, School for Workers didn't have a very good image.  LA is not sure how unions viewed School for Workers.  LA expanded its class program.  Schwartztrauber died, and Ulrickson succeeded him.  Soon after they got Bob Ozanne through Bob Fleming who was head of Industrial Relations center.  Also talked to Ed Young about it. 

00:20:48	A difficulty in Fond du Lac about School for Workers was resolved through Frank Sensenbrenner.  Sensenbrenner didn't like School, but he defended it from attack.  

00:21:53	LA worked with E.B. Fred longer than any of presidents.  Long-term redevelopment of Extension which took place over about ten years was due to his support.  Characterization of Fred, anecdotes.  

00:23:48	LA feels that his main contribution was development of Institute and Conference Program.  LA developed that program further and systematically created programs in all professional fields, as well as some in Letters and Science.  Simultaneously built up departments so that all department heads had a joint appointment in Extension and their own department.  Other staff members were not split appointments.  Didn't ever really work out that way.  No extra money if you had a joint appointment, but you were compensated for any overtime.  

00:28:26	These people had both been on faculty and some new were hired.  Mulvihill was brought in from outside.  LA pushed joint appointment as far as he could.  Extension changed drastically from a correspondence school to having very large classes.  LA wanted more quality of teaching and more diversity of subject matter.   

00:31:07	End of side. 

Tape 1/Side 2

00:31:20	Centers were coming along after WWII. Pressure of numbers of returning servicemen.  Developed thirty-five centers to deal with this.  Mostly housed in local vocational schools and Extension provided instruction.  Racine decided they wanted a campus, so they donated an old elementary school in middle of town to Extension.  This was first campus of center system.  Soon it became policy that community which wanted a campus would provide building and maintenance, and University would provide all needed equipment and instruction.

00:34:09	This policy just evolved as they were dealing with individual communities.  Waukesha was only place that objected to county footing bill to erect a new building.  

00:36:07	Henry Ahrnsbrak was outstanding person.  First dean to negotiate a new building.  Good sense of how to deal with people in community.  

00:37:33	Wilbur Hanley, Director of Freshman-Sophomore program, handled much of relations.  But LA talked to deans daily by phone.  Changed their names from director to dean because LA felt that title held more prestige.  

00:39:51	Wausau addition.  Began building new campuses--about 12 or 13.  State college were basically training teachers.  Conflicts in locating Extension classes with State Teachers Colleges, both wanting to have similar classes in space.  Extension developed a policy of backing out of those situations; it was probably not very well adhered to.  

0043:09	Harrington was best president LA worked with.  He took quite an interest in Extension and they got along very well.  In 1962, Harrington asked him if he would rather stay as Dean of Extension or go to Center System.  LA chose Center System.  He was interested in developing Centers and building new campuses.  

00:45:52	Wilbur Hanley expected to get that job.  LA was told several times to fire Hanley and put him back in geography department.  Finally Harrington did fire him.  Center System campuses that University started are all viable campuses.  But some that State Teachers Colleges started are too small to be worthwhile.  

00:49:24	Worked with Conrad Elvehjem when he was president.  He gave LA a completely free hand, not a lot of direct supervision.  Elvehjem was a very serious person.  

00:50:33	Met quite frequently with Harrington.  LA got to know him very well when he was vice-president.  What was discussed at Chancellor's meetings.  They had an agenda, Harrington was very well organized.  

00:53:36	Robben Fleming, Chancellor of Madison campus and his problems with student protest years.  Joe Klotsche, Chancellor at Milwaukee.  Good sense of humor.  Was always on top of things.  Ed Weidner, who is still at Green Bay, never wanted to discuss anything having to do with Green Bay campus.  He felt it was his business alone.  Irving Wiley at Racine, very open, somewhat  argumentative but a very able fellow.  

00:56:38	Didn't know William Sewell very well.  

00:57:00	Offices on State St. during protest years. Some minor protests at Center System campuses.  

00:58:56	E.B. Fred and dean's meetings, met once a week.  Kurt Wendt was more articulate in dean's meetings.  He had ideas about everything.  Wendt was head of campus planning.  William Middleton never said anything.  He and LA were neighbors for fifteen years but LA was only in his home once.  LA feels that Middleton was probably a very shy man.   

01:02:42	End of tape.

Tape 2 /Side 1   

00:00:01	Mark Ingraham was very thoughtful; he expressed himself very well.  LA rarely spoke at those meetings.  Rudolph Froker, Ag dean was a hard pusher for Ag.  Seems as if all Ag people were pushers.

00:01:35	Joseph McCarthy never did a thing against University.  Regents were often upset at radical activities at University.  

00:03:19	Regent Sensenbrenner very helpful.  LA felt that Arthur DeBardeleben was best regent.  Charles Gelatt was also good, but rather conservative. Arthur DeBardeleben was more liberal and a forceful speaker.  He was a lawyer from Racine who as regent and sent kringle to all deans each Christmas in 1960s. 

00:06:54	LA was generally in favor of merger of state colleges and University, but not in favor of merging General Extension and Ag Extension, and that has fallen apart.  They were two completely different entities. 

00:08:36	Some feelings of competition between the two Extensions.  Ag people who were in field felt that Extension was intruding on their territory.  Good relations on Madison level. 
               
00:11:17	Ed Young was a good president with a very different style.  He was an old friend of LA's.  Easy to work with.  LA and Warren Weaver just did not hit it off.  Feels he just did not understand and didn't care to understand.  Weaver was last president LA worked with. 

00:13:27	LA was never really discouraged.  Had a couple of homosexual cases which turn out to be quite serious.  LA was called one morning and told.  He went and talked with man.  He ended up firing him because it was causing considerable disruption in the classroom.  In another case, LA removed man from his job but paid him for balance of term.  In 1960's, those were most difficult things.  

00:17:11	Did a lot of sweating over budget.  Henry Duwe was a first rate accountant and handled budget and business office.  Duwe went with LA when he went to Center System.  Didn't have to push too hard to get funding.  Had to make so much of income for Extension so they were really only financing about one third of their total budget. 

00:20:25	Extension programs in nation were entirely self-supporting, they had no help from State.  Some years got 105% of budget in fees because of a big Army program. 

00:21:47	Practical courses were provided more by vocational schools.  They tended to be management, etc.  Graduate program tended to be for teachers.  School of Education gave classes, Extension administered entire program. 

00:24:23	LA has done writing and a lot of cooking since his retirement.  Quite a lot of reading.   All of his correspondents are dead.  Discusses a colonel in Army who used to send in 30-40 pages on a single assignment.  LA put comments on work.  Then colonel would start his next lesson with a long commentary on LA's comments.  

00:28:05	End of interview.

END