UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #658
HINDEN, MICHAEL

HINDEN, Michael (1941- )
Professor of English and Integrated Liberal Studies; Associate Dean of International Studies
At UW: 1969-

Interviewed: 2004	
Interviewer: Joyce Coleman
Length: 2 hours, 24 minutes

Background; Establishment of Integrated Liberal Studies (ILS) program; Problems facing ILS in the 1970s; Restructuring of program; Steering committee; Faculty recruitment; Legacy of Experimental College; Alexander Meiklejohn; Global Cultures program; Bradley Learning Community; International Learning Community; Reflections on career at UW and the importance of a liberal arts education.

First Interview Session (February 9, 2004): Tapes 1-2

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:15	Michael Hinden arrived at UW in 1969 as an instructor in the English department.  As an undergraduate at Ohio University, he spent a year studying French civilization at the Sorbonne in Paris.  Two aspects of this experience were particularly influential on his later academic interests–the year-long, integrated sequence of courses that made up the curriculum, and the development of his interest in art.

00:03:01	MH discusses a summer job he had in the late 1960s at Shaker Village, a summer camp in New York State oriented towards learning.  At this camp he taught creative writing and worked with the other counselors and campers to restore Shaker buildings.  The experience taught him about building a sense of community around a common project.

00:04:40	MH explains why he decided to study abroad in France.  He had never traveled outside the United States, and had a romantic notion that spending a year in Paris would turn him into a novelist.

00:05:40	MH describes the Integrated Liberal Studies (ILS) program.  Since its inception in the late 1940s, the ILS program has been based on three core features: an interdisciplinary, integrative approach to education; a focus on undergraduate education and close student-faculty contact; and an historical approach to Western civilization and culture.

00:07:02	MH explains that the ILS program was established in the post-war period when Dean of the College of Letters and Sciences (L&S) Mark Ingraham created several committees to review the college’s curriculum.  One of these committees, the Ogg Committee, produced a majority report (Curriculum A) and a minority report (Curriculum B).  Curriculum B, a proposal to create an integrated set of courses, developed into the ILS program.  Robert Pooley became the program’s first chair.

00:10:01	The ILS program prospered in the 1950s and 1960s, in large part due to the outstanding, dedicated teachers Pooley recruited.  MH talks about three problems the ILS program experienced in the 1970s.  First of all, most of the founding faculty retired within a few years, and they began to be replaced piece-meal by lecturers and non-tenured faculty.  Second, new math and language requirements for students led to a steep drop-off in enrollment from the first year to the second year of the program, as students found it difficult to fit the ILS courses into their programs.  A third problem was that ILS was disproportionately affected by the TAA strike of 1970, which attracted more negative attention to the program.

00:13:45	In the spring of 1979, Dean of L&S E. David Cronon, with the support of his academic planning committee, announced his plan to close down the program.  MH explains that the relationship between Cronon and Chair of ILS Robert Kimbrough was strained, and contributed to Cronon’s hostility to the program.

00:15:18	MH talks about the historical precedents to this tension between L&S and ILS.  Alexander Meiklejohn, the chair of the Experimental College, had earlier had a negative relationship with Dean of L&S George Sellery.  MH believes that Sellery and Cronon shared a similar view of the Experimental College / ILS as rivals to L&S and the departmental structure.

00:16:20	After Cronon recommended the termination of the program, the issue was brought before the L&S faculty senate.  Several faculty members stepped forward to defend ILS.

00:17:10	ILS was allowed to continue on an interim basis, and a new committee was appointed to review it.  In February of 1980, Herbert Howe, a professor of classics who was then chair of ILS, approached MH and asked him if he would be willing to chair the ILS program during the restructuring.  MH explains that a graduate student had recommended his name to Howe.

00:19:22	The other members of the committee included Howe, Barry Powell, Gretchen Schoff, David Lindberg and Daniel Siegel.  MH talks about the curriculum they planned.  In order to bring in people from the social sciences and natural sciences, they recruited Charles Anderson, Joseph Elder, Robert Sack, Robert March and Timothy Allen.

00:24:08	MH explains his criteria for selecting faculty.  He wanted excellent undergraduate teachers who were willing to teach an interdisciplinary course within either an historical or a contemporary sequence. 

00:25:11	Although the committee did not look at historical models when planning their program, they later realized they had reinvented the curriculum of the previous ILS program.  MH compares the restructured program to the original program.  The key difference was that under the new program, students were allowed to choose which ILS courses they wanted to take and when they would take them, instead of having to complete the program by the sophomore year.  Students who took 21 credits were awarded an ILS certificate.  MH explains that the only required course for students earning a certificate was a course on critical thinking and expression.

00:28:24	MH talks about how enrollment increased after the restructuring.  There is now a small core of students who elect to take the entire program, but many other students take isolated ILS courses as electives.

00:29:19	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:29:20	Although MH spent a great deal of time trying to improve incentives for faculty recruitment and retention, he did not succeed, and faculty were frequently not rewarded by their home departments for the courses they taught in ILS.  MH notes, however, that the lack of incentives did not really matter because the faculty he recruited were enthusiastic about teaching for ILS.  He describes how he recruited faculty for the program.

00:32:18	Faculty in small departments such as history of science and classics saw a significant advantage to building a close connection with ILS.  They recognized that by teaching for ILS, they could provide positions for their graduate students as teaching assistants.

00:33:21	MH talks about the reasons why some faculty found the idea of teaching in ILS appealing.  In recent years, the incentive system for faculty has been improved.

00:36:17	MH predicts that the ILS program will not face similar problems when the group of faculty active since the restructuring begins to retire.  Some have already retired, but enthusiastic faculty members have been recruited to replace them.

00:37:51	MH talks about the place of science in the original ILS program and in the restructured ILS program.  Obtaining science credit for the history of science sequence proved significant to the program’s success.  Many students took courses in the ILS program in order to satisfy their science requirement.

00:39:40	MH had never heard of the Experimental College (EC) when he became involved with ILS.  He remembers that he first learned about the EC in November of 1981, when EC alumnus Philleo Nash appeared at a meeting of the ILS steering committee and began telling stories about the EC.

00:43:30	The more MH learned about the EC curriculum, the more he saw connections between the EC and the ILS program.  He describes some of these connections.  Many of the surviving EC alumni became involved with the ILS program.

00:46:50	MH describes Alexander Meiklejohn’s philosophy of education.  Although the ILS program lacked a residential program, it shared many similarities to the EC.  One difference, however, was that it had a closer relationship with L&S than had the EC.

00:49:30	MH explains that the ILS program developed a reputation of elitism in the 1950s when a cohort of extremely bright students, the Ford scholars, entered the program.  The restructured ILS program was intended to attract a broad group of students in order to avoid the charge of elitism.

00:52:13	MH summarizes the similarities between the EC and the ILS program.  He comments on the program’s success since the restructuring.

00:53:49	MH describes ILS 204, “Western Culture, Literature and the Arts from the Renaissance to the Modern Period,” a course he has taught most years since 1980.

00:55:47	In 1991, MH became associate dean in the Office of International Studies and Programs in the Division of International Studies.  He proposed organizing an integrative certificate program on global cultures.

00:58:06	MH explains that when he was chair of ILS in 1990-91, students began asking why ILS focused exclusively on Western culture.  His proposal for a Global Cultures program came in response to this criticism.

01:00:07	End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 2/Side 1

01:00:08	During MH’s first year as associate dean, he chaired a steering committee appointed by the deans of L&S and of International Studies to study the feasibility of establishing a Global Cultures program.  The program was begun on an interim basis in 1993; in 1995 it was continued as a permanent program.

01:03:05	MH describes the structure of the program.  Like ILS, students who take 21 credits in the program during their undergraduate career earn a certificate.  Unlike ILS, however, there is no unified set of integrated courses.  One course is required for the certificate, ILS 209 (“Introduction to Global Cultures”).  To fulfill the remainder of their requirements, students choose from over 100 courses taught all over L&S.  They must also satisfy a language requirement and take a senior capstone seminar.  Students who study abroad receive credits towards their certificate.

01:06:27	MH talks about the students who enroll in the Global Cultures certificate program.  He estimates that more than half the students who earn the certificate study abroad.

01:08:40	He describes the capstone seminar offered as part of the program.  Students undertake a comparative research project for this seminar.

01:10:08	MH explains the impact that studying abroad can have on students by referring to his own experience at the Sorbonne as an undergraduate.

01:12:37	He recalls how he recruited faculty for the Global Cultures program.  He found many enthusiastic faculty members who were excited about becoming involved with the program.

01:15:03	End of side.  End of tape.

Second Interview Session (February 25, 2004): Tapes 3-4

Tape 3/Side 1

00:00:32	MH talks about the steering committee that reorganized the ILS program in 1981.  He describes the excitement of the meetings at which committee members designed an interdisciplinary curriculum together from scratch.

00:02:59	In the early ILS program, faculty attended each other’s classes.  One faculty member recently proposed that the department find a way to “buy out” one person’s course each semester to allow that person to attend all the ILS classes.

00:03:44	Some of the cohesiveness between the courses has been lost as new faculty members join the program and revise courses.  MH notes that it is sometimes easier to create an integrated curriculum than to maintain it. 

00:05:13	MH talks about Gretchen Schoff, a member of the founding committee who was initially hired by the College of Engineering to teach technical English.

00:07:01	Despite the differing backgrounds of the steering committee, the members had a wonderful working relationship with one another.

00:08:50	MH served as the co-chair of the Bradley Learning Community (BLC) planning committee in 1994-95 and then as the faculty director from 1995 to 2001.  He explains that while reorganizing the ILS program, he regretted that it was not possible to add a residential component to the program.  Meiklejohn’s Experimental College was based around the concept of a residential learning community.

00:09:49	MH notes that Chancellor David Ward strongly emphasized undergraduate education, and challenged the leaders of the residence halls to ask themselves how residences could help fulfill the university’s educational mission.  A committee of residence hall leaders began to develop plans for a learning community in one of the residence halls, then went to MH to seek faculty input.  Someone had suggested that Global Cultures might be interested in forming an academic link with a learning community.

00:13:30	MH was enthusiastic about the idea of bringing both Global Cultures and ILS into a partnership with a learning community.  A third interdisciplinary program, Environmental Studies, was also included.  Faculty members from all three programs joined the BLC steering committee.

00:14:31	Because the planning process began within the housing division, friction occasionally developed between housing personnel and faculty.  Faculty thought of the learning community as an extension of their academic programs.  However housing personnel sometimes felt that faculty were taking over their plans for a primarily non-academic program.  At a day-long retreat for the members of the steering committee, they were able to create a mission statement on which they all agreed.

00:18:45	As far as MH can determine, the term “learning community” was invented by Meiklejohn in a document he wrote describing his Experimental College.  Several other schools experimented with residential learning communities a few years before BLC was established.  MH explains that in the early 1980s, he had approached the residence halls but found they were not interested in learning communities.

00:20:50	BLC was intended to provide both academic and social activities to its residents, who were exclusively freshman.  The plan was initially to encourage residents to enroll in a certificate program in ILS, Global Cultures, or Environmental Studies.  Faculty offered office hours once a week in the residence hall.

00:22:45	MH lists the faculty who participated in the program the first year.  He notes that over time, students began to define what they wanted from the program.  Faculty initially expected honors seminars to take place in the residence halls, but they learned over time that students did not want more classes and homework, but rather wanted to get to know the faculty outside of the classroom structure.  Some faculty felt uncomfortable about this personal type of contact with students and left BLC, but others adjusted to this sort of relationship.

00:25:18	During the first year, students wrote in a learning journal about assigned topics and attended a weekly learning journal class where they discussed their entries.  The faculty enjoyed this process, but at the end of the year students told them they did not want additional homework.

00:26:19	Other aspects of the program thrived, and a real sense of community developed among students.  MH talks about the role of peer learning partners, upper-class students who acted as house-fellows and who mediated between students and faculty.  BLC residents planned a number of events, such as panel discussions featuring faculty, dinner speakers, and cultural events.

00:28:23	By the second year, the learning journal was dropped.  BLC faculty began planning more events at dinner time, such as round table discussions.

00:29:23		End of side.

Tape 3/Side 2

00:29:25	MH explains that first-year undergraduates often feel lost when they arrive at the university and are too intimidated to talk to their professors.  A survey conducted at the end of the first year indicated that BLC students were more likely than non-BLC students to go see professors in their office hours.  BLC students were also less likely to drink, destroy property and drop out of the university.

00:31:08	The 244 residents of BLC quickly got to know one another.  MH notes that no grades were given for BLC credit academic programs because faculty did not want to put pressure on students.

00:32:13	Over the course of the year, MH got to know many students personally and saw them mature and gain self-confidence.  Students began to confide to faculty about their personal problems, and MH and the other faculty gained an appreciation of the many pressures students currently face.  Some faculty felt uncomfortable interacting with students on this personal level.

00:35:30	MH says that although it was a considerable time commitment for faculty, most of them greatly enjoyed the experience of connecting to students and remain dedicated to the program.

00:36:45	MH contrasts one other residential community, Women in Science and Engineering (WISE), with BLC.  Housing personnel quickly noted the popularity of residential communities.  Paul Evans, the director of housing, became a champion of learning communities, and has spent a great deal of time working with faculty to develop other learning communities, such as Chadbourne Residential College.

00:39:15	MH talks about the academic events that were of greatest interest to students.  An example of a successful event was a panel discussion featuring several faculty talking about their experiences on campus during the anti-Vietnam protests.

00:40:39	Social activities in BLC included coffee houses, movie nights, dances, and Halloween pumpkin-carving.  Aaron Brower developed “Jackson Pollack night,” an event at which students collaborated to create an abstract painting.  As time went on, students took on a greater role in planning events.

00:42:12	Fewer students than anticipated completed certificates in ILS, Global Cultures and Environmental Studies.  It became clear by the second year that these three certificate programs would not form the basis of a communal learning experience in BLC.  For the next few years BLC faculty encouraged students to register for a special section of “Critical Thinking and Expression,” an ILS course.  But this also did not serve the entire community, and it was dropped.

00:43:32	MH’s dream of recreating the Experimental College by having all students in BLC take the same course remains unfulfilled.  He notes that it might not be an appropriate model for the twenty-first century.

00:44:37	BLC has become very successful and it fills up every year.  MH points out that like good parents, the founding faculty have accepted that BLC developed along its own lines, rather than following their initial plans for it.

00:45:23	Based on the success of BLC, the housing division expressed interest in starting new learning communities.  Paul Evans and MH developed the idea of an international learning community.

00:47:03	MH served on the planning community for the International Learning Community (ILC) in 2001-02, and as faculty director in 2002-03.  He describes the process of planning ILC.  By coincidence, the housing division selected Adams Hall, the residence hall that housed Meiklejohn’s Experimental College seventy years earlier, to be the home of ILC.

00:48:19	ILC was planned along the same lines as BLC.  Academic events included weekly dinners, talks on international events, and workshops.  Students organized social events such as dinners and movies with international content.  ILC is restricted to students who are sophomores and above, and emphasizes international studies and language learning.

00:49:51	When ILC was being planned, MH learned of the German department’s plans to create a German language floor in a residence hall.  He initiated negotiations with the German department, and the result was that the German floor became part of the ILC.  A total of 65 students lived in the ILC during its first year (2002-03).  In the second year of ILC, a Spanish language floor was added.

00:51:45	MH was somewhat disappointed that during its first year the ILC did not attract as many international students as he had hoped.  Students who choose ILC tend to be international studies majors, students involved with a study abroad program, and students who have traveled abroad.  The German department hired a teaching assistant to live on the German floor and to hold daily discussions with students.

00:53:27	Students in ILC are encouraged to enroll in Global Cultures or to consider studying abroad but there is no separate course for ILC students.  MH talks about some of the faculty involved with ILC.

00:56:13	There is a more disparate group of students in ILC than in BLC, since BLC students all share in common the fact that they are freshmen.  Building up a sense of community in ILC is therefore more of a challenge.

00:57:44	In the spring of 2003, MH completed his term as associate dean of International Studies to return to full-time teaching in the English department.  MH explains why he made this decision.  He still teaches in the ILS program, chairs the Global Cultures program, and is involved with the ILC.

00:59:22	MH talks about the role administrative work has played in his career at UW.  He considers his administrative work in building up new programs to be his greatest contribution to the university.

01:00:18		End of side.  End of tape.

Tape 4/Side 1

01:00:27	MH talks about his plans to retire at the end of the 2004-05 year.

01:01:16	He discusses the function of a liberal arts education and the ways in which a study abroad experience can benefit a student.

01:04:05	MH notes that some of the alumni of the Experimental College went on to outstanding careers in public life. He repeats an anecdote from Wilbur Cohen, a Meiklejohn alumnus who went on to serve in President Johnson’s cabinet. At a cabinet meeting during the Vietnam War, when the war was not progressing well, Johnson asked if anyone had any questions. Cohen asked him why the US was in Vietnam. Johnson became flustered and delivered an angry, incoherent response that indicated he did not welcome that type of questioning. Cohen told MH that his question was prompted by his training in the Experimental College.

01:07:33	MH talks about the difference between teaching and learning. It is a challenge for even the best lecturer to inspire a student to learn. MH is pleased at the success of programs such as ILS, Global Cultures, BLC and ILC at creating one-on-one connections between students and faculty, despite the large size of the university.

01:09:30	End of side. End of tape.

END