UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #1704
GIBSON, Eunice

GIBSON, Eunice. (1934- )
Retired Attorney for the City of Madison
At UW: 1951-1956 (Undergraduate) 1970-1973 (Law School)

Interviewed: March 16, 2018	
Series: UW Oral History and Women's History 
Interviewer: Emma Strenski
Indexed by: Emma Strenski 
Length: 56 minutes 

Interview about her time in Madison as an Undergraduate and Law School student. Upbringing, journey to Madison, time working for the Wisconsin Democratic Party, living in Panama, Law School, working at the City Attorney's Office and being the first female City Attorney for Madison. 

00:00:01	Introductions, background, growing up. Born in a farmhouse in Kansas in the Depression in 1934. At the beginning of World War II, father moved the family to Sturgeon Bay, WI to work in the ship yards. 

00:02:12	It was crowded because the ship yards were booming. Needed labor for WWII. The only place her dad could find for them to live was a tourist cabin, and her mom was pregnant. She was just about 8 years old at that time. Lived in the tourist cabin for a week, then moved to a cherry pickers cabin, then moved to the country, finally got government housing. You can still visit that house, it was her first indoor plumbing, first electricity, in 1943-1944. She was not attached to where she lived and she is happy about that, seen one house seen them all. 

00:04:10	When the war was over, the ship yard pretty much closed down and moved to Oshkosh, WI. She met someone in Sturgeon Bay who taught her how to baton twirl, which she really enjoyed as a kid. She took lessons, performed in recitals. She spent a year in the Lutheran School in Oshkosh, then went to high school and spent three years in the same school. Was the drum majorette and graduated in 1951. 

00:05:30	Describes how easy it was to get into UW-Madison at that time. Her parents came from a farm, they were literate but not educated beyond high school. They had no notion or what that was about. Gives high school principal credit because he found her a scholarship for $500 a semester to go to UW-Madison. He met with EG and her parents and described why she needed a degree: with the Korean War and everything going on in the US, you never know that your husband will be able to support you, so it is really a good thing for you to go to college and get a degree because you might have to support yourself. 

00:07:25	Came to Madison in the fall of 1951, filled out a form, sent it down, principal 	recommended her and that was it. Anyone who went to high school pretty much 	could go. Not many did, but it was possible. Girls couldn’t live on their own, it 	was not allowed, and they had to be in an approved rooming house or a dorm. She 	couldn’t afford a dorm but found a rooming house on Chandler Street. 

00:08:40	Earliest memories of Madison and the campus. Walking, she learned to take a bus, taught baton twirling for the Kale School of Dance. Also worked for East Side Businessman’s club teaching baton. She soon also got a nannying job, so she had to quit the Kale School job but kept the East Side Businessman’s job. She was a live-in nanny, which was isolating but productive. 

00:09:47	After two years nannying, she moved to campus and immediately turned to a lot of campus activities and groups. Daily Cardinal and theater were her main groups. Pained sets and made costumes. Was paid to make costumes for the Hairs Foot Club, a cross dressing/drag group. She made their skirts and got paid by hour. This is how she met her husband, dancing in the chorus of Bittersweet and he was a stage hand.  

00:11:05	What was Madison like at that time? State Street was hopping, but not a pedestrian street, there was a lot of traffic up and down. You could park on State Street. Went Christmas Shopping around the square. Took the bus every morning, still likes to take the bus. The shopping was completely different, no malls. 

00:12:23	Influences from the outside events. Other then the Korean War, she just focused on studies. She was a back and forth student. Thought of herself as a dance major, they were put into Integrated Liberal Studies. Remembers two classics professors, which was a whole new world for her. Brought her into the Humanities. Herbert Howell was grad student at that time and he stood out because he rode a bike. Back then only rich people could afford to ride bikes. It wasn’t as popular like it is now. 

00:14:27	Clarifying what she studied as an undergrad. Majored in Dance for a while, then Physical Education/Gym – loved the classes, loved the sports like tennis, gold, fencing. But to teach, you had to wear just the worst outfits, so then changed major to German. She took 190 credits, which isn’t even allowed now. Took heavy credit load and audited journalism and constitutional law. Opened her eyes to politics. 

00:16:20	She was married and pregnant when she graduated. Even though she got a grant to get her MA in German, had to stop it when the baby came. She had to get a job so her husband could go to law school. Graduated Undergrad in February 1956. 

00:17:20	Got a teaching job in the late 50s while her husband was in law school at UW-Madison. Taught in Dane County, they lived on student’s wives, which kept their salary schedule low, high turnover rate, and she took part in that. She got pregnant again and was treated generously by the district but they said that they knew she wasn’t going to accept the contract because she was pregnant.

00:18:18	She got a job with the State Office for the Democratic Party of Wisconsin around 1960. Started as a bookkeeper, which she knew nothing about, got help and only had to keep it by hand. When the Executive Secretary departed, she got that job and she had to learn shorthand. Story about teaching kids what shorthand is.  

00:20:18	Back to Executive Secretary job. Got a call from the City Clerk and he asked her how they can keep the UW-Madison students from voting and she doesn’t know how she handled it. Working in politics was completely new, it was a way of meeting new people. Took notes at the Democratic State Administrative Committee Meetings in different parts of the state each month. She took the minutes for these meetings. Worked under Pat Lucey, who went on to become the Wisconsin Governor (1971-1977). 

00:21:56	Husband graduated Law School in 1961 and they had just worked through the Kennedy campaign, which was really interesting. Husband sought a job in Washington D.C. and got a job with the Federal Trade Commission (FTA). She was able to get a job in Senator Harrison Williams’s office. Now living in Washington D.C. with three kids. Three girls. Williams was the chief sponsor of the urban transportation bill which started what the Federal Government does today with urban mass transportation and is what made State Street possible the way that it is today. 
 
00:23:14	Made a political friend Jim Megellas who was defeated in run for Congress, but Kennedy appointed him to the US Agency for International Development (USAID), Mission Director in Yemen. He would come back and visit and one of those times, he had just been appointed to Panama, and he asked EG and her husband if they wanted to work with him in Panama. They said yes, EG likes adventure, and they made that change. She left Williams office, he was up for re –election, so she worked through the election in November of 1964 and she had another baby by that time. 4 babies now. Went to work, finished off her communciations, went to the hospital, had the baby, went back to the office to report everything was ok.  

00:24:34	In later years, Senator Williams cosponsored the Pregnancy Discrimination Act. She likes to think she had a part in that, being pregnant in his office.

00:25:18	So then they moved to Panama in the spring of 1965 with four kids, three girls and a boy. Interesting life there, State Department prepared them well with language. She was considered an AID Wife, and describes what that was like. Put kids in school and they learned Spanish. Joined Lutheran Church. Stories about life in Panama. 

00:28:00	Husband’s job allowed them to travel around Panama and they met a lot of Peace Corps volunteers, including Jack Laun, who would become a lifelong friend. Peace Corps was very new and all volunteers were doing community work, even though they were lawyers. Came up with the idea of having Peace Corps lawyers work with the Panamaean lawyers to set up a legal clinic for the poor, which still runs today. 

00:30:20	She was in her early 30s in Panama, went there with four kids and left with five. Had a kid in Panama, he is 52 now. They came back in late 1969. When they were leaving Panama, her husband’s next job was in Vietnam. They did not like that idea, 5 kids in the middle of a war zone, I don’t think so. 

00:31:30	Story of their friend Jim Megellas, a war hero from WWII who wrote On the Way to Berlin, which later became a major motion picture. 

00:32:45	She entered UW-Madison Law School in 1970. She graduated in 1973 and it was hard to get a job. She was a working mom of 5 kids and she was Order of Contif from the Law Review and she thought the big firms would want her. But in those days, it was almost more the 5 kids that held her back than being a woman. She got a few interviews, but when they heard about the 5 kids, that was it. 

00:33:31	In those days, they remembered that in WWII and the Depression, when the Jews lawyers couldn’t get a job, they went to the government and got help from Roosevelt and the New Deal, so she applied for a job with the Wisconsin State Government. They were going to have to do that all over again. 

00:33:55	Roughly 10% of graduating were women. Had a women’s group, like a support group, and one women’s teacher and a women’s law class. They had to look to the government to get jobs because no firms were going to hire women to do a man’s job. She worked for the City of Madison, first for the Wisconsin Department of Revenue for 6 months and then the City Attorney’s Office. She was the first female attorney they hired.

00:36:05	Her fist week in the City Attorney’s Office in 1974, she signed her paperwork, worked for 4 days, then got into a life threatening car accident. This kept her off work for months. Got good medical care, they do trauma care differently now but she liked her treatment in 74. Describes treatment. 

00:37:25	More about City Attorney’s Office, had the fortune of working with an administration that sincerely wanted to follow the law. Researching, teaching, training, teaching them a way to keep out of trouble. Don’t count your wins because they don’t sue you because they did right. 

00:38:24	Stories about discrimination in Police and Fire Departments in the 1980s. Courts ordered that every other hire had to be a minority. The City brought in the minorities’, trained them, and made sure they succeeded, so they didn’t need a court order. Did a lot of teaching and training, people mostly wanted success. 

00:39:39	Retired from the City Attorney’s Office in 2002, but a story from the 1990s about when she was working. Introduction with the Colombia Support Network. Talks about her interaction with the mayor of San Jose de Apartado, the Dane County Sister Community in Colombia. They mayor describes the human rights violations in their community, by the paramilitaries and army. Dead staff members and horrors of Colombia.

00:42:49	Did not really get involved with the Colombia Support Network until after she retired. Worked at the City Attorney’s Office from 1974-2002 and was the City Attorney for Madison from 1991-2002. She was the first women to hold that position. She was able to hire a lot of good people, mostly women, and many of them are still there. 

00:43:35	Back to her car crash in 1974. It was caused by a drunk driver, who happened to have good insurance. So they sued for damages and won enough money to take a trip to Latin America. This is where the met up with Jack Laun and met Cecilia Zarate-Laun, who later introduced them to the Colombia Support Network. Story of USAID people. Ended with 5 kids and she talks a little about how lucky she is because the all live in Dane County today. They moved around a lot but all ended up back here close to her. 

00:46:28	After she retired in 2002, she took an interest with Cecilia and Jack’s Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) The Colombia Support Network. She went on her first delegation to Colombia in 2004. Defines what a campesino is Talks about Colombia and the 2005 massacre in the Peace Community and Paramilitary attacks in Colombia. Peace Community is still in danger today. 

00:50:55	Legal work for Montenegro and Kazakhstan through International Municipal Lawyers Association, and the World Jurist Association which have been very important to her since she retired. She has been to Australia, China, and all over Latin America teaching about legal codes and municipal laws in dozens of countries. She is heading to the Dominican Republic in June.   

00:54:45	Wrap up, today she likes to volunteer with Spanish speakers, there are more Latin immigrants then in the 50s when she arrived. Short conversation in Spanish. 

00:56:16 	End of recording. 

END