UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM

Interview #1271
HOEPPNER, ANN MARIE

HOEPPNER, ANN MARIE 

Interviewed: 	2012
Interviewer: 	Kara Bissen
Index by: 	Tiffany Schroeder
Length: 	1 hour, 25 minutes
Series:		Eau Claire’s LGBT Community, 1960s to present

Abstract: In her June 2012 interview with Kara Bissen, Ann Marie Hoeppner details her life before, during, and after transition in the Eau Claire community. She talks about her struggles, her prospers, and her involvement with numerous things. Ann Marie highlights the LGBTQ community in Eau Claire. This interview was conducted for inclusion into the UW-Madison Oral History Program.

Key Words: transition, insurance, business, Minnesota, GID, endocrinologist, drag queen, PRIDE, ambulance, Meltzer, Arizona, Scottsdale, children, wife, president, doctor, counselor, shrine, mason, community center, LGBT, bars, Scooters, Moges, Stellas

First Interview Session (June 3, 2012): Audio File

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Kara Bissen introduces Ann Marie Hoeppner on the third of June in Eau Claire. 

00:00:09	Question: How long have you been in Eau Claire?
	Answer: Ann Marie has been in Eau Claire all of her life. At the age of thirteen, her parents started an ambulance business, and after their divorce when she eighteen, she took the business over with her mother, and expanded it to six ambulances and 35 employees. 

00:00:38	Question: How have you seen Eau Claire change over time?
	Answer: Ann Marie says that Eau Claire has gotten bigger, and is an open and accepting community by large. She was the past president of independent insurance agents in 2003, and has been involved in business all of her life. She met Jane when she was in third grade, before sex ever came into the picture. They go married and now have two kids and four grandchildren. Everyone is accepting of her, although her son had some issues.

00:02:32	[no question]
	Answer: Ann Marie was on the shrine board of directors in 2009, and had she stayed as Art, she would have been the head of the shrine for Wisconsin. Ann sold her first insurance agency in 1996, but still did computer work for them and commuted to Minneapolis everyday. The commute gave Ann an opportunity to think about herself, and with a suggestion from her friend, she found a gender therapist in Minneapolis in 2002. Ann was reluctant to see someone in Eau Claire because of her notoriety. 

00:04:29	[no question]
	Answer: After six months with the therapist, Ann was diagnosed with GID. The therapist suggested that Ann inform her wife, and gave her a referral to see an endocrinologist for hormones. The counselor convinced Ann that she would lose everything, and at the time she was attempting to purchase two insurance agencies, and was starting her own consulting business. Ann was not in a position to come out. 

00:05:33	[no question]
	Answer: Ann bought the two agencies, and asked two of her friends to partner them with her. After a year and a half, she started to develop breasts, and the doctor said that he was going to change her inside and out, and that everything was irreversible. In 2005, Ann finally told Jane, and six months prior, Jane noticed her growing chest. Jane said she could see the despair, and would rather accept her that way than no way. 

00:07:55	[no question]
	Answer: Ann came out to Jane and began dealing with other friends in July of 2005. Her goal was to become full-time in January of 2006. She came out to her partners, but they didn’t accept her and bought her out. Ann didn’t wait until January, and instead went full-time at the end of July 2005. 

00:08:35	[no question]
	Answer: Ann was a martial artist, and operated a school. Her partners there thought that she shouldn’t go for her safety, and she had a lot going on. She had her knee replaced and both rotator cuffs repairs, and enrolled in electrolysis school. She graduated, took her state boards in April of 2006, had surgery in July of 2006, took her nationals in October of 2005, and opened her business in December of 2006. 

00:09:58	[no question]
	Answer: Ann Marie was also enrolled in speech therapy at the university.[shows example of old voice] 

00:10:57	Question: What does it feel like to hear that?
	Answer: Every once in a while Ann thinks she has issues with her voice, but then hears that recording and realizes she has no problem. 

00:11:20	[no question]
	Answer: In 2004, an article was run in the newspaper on her martial arts school, and there was a picture of her and her son on the front page. When Ann went full time, she got involved in the LGBT Community Center, and was treasurer. Ann has been treasurer of many organizations. [shows pictures before transition and after transition]

00:13:36	[no question]
	Answer: Ann Marie has been in charge of all of her high school class reunions, and in 2012, there was another reunion. Her last one was in 2005, when she first came out. She was the co-chair of the committee, and didn’t hide from it. There were some issues, but people got over them. Ann conducted the group around the whole day, worked the reception desk, and MC’ed on Saturday. An old classmate, Mike Loomis, came up and talked about the championship game, motioned to Ann Marie, and kissed her on the lips. She didn’t have a problem for the rest of the night.

00:16:30	[no question]
	Answer: Ann’s neighbor was one of her martial arts students, and had a problem with her transition. Ann confronted him one day, and he expressed concern for his daughters. Now they are fine. 

00:18:04	[no question]
	Answer: One of Ann’s school friends said Ann would always be Artie to her, but now knows why Ann used to play dress- up with her sisters. Ann’s father would come home to them playing dress- up and would beat her. Ann never had large hands or feet, and never had an adam’s apple. Everything is how it should be for Ann Marie. [shows more pictures]

00:20:07	[no question]
	Answer: Ann Marie went to Dr. Meltzer in Arizona for surgery when her granddaughter was ten. Ann and her granddaughter bonded extremely well, and in October of 2005, Ann told her daughter that she must inform her grandchildren. When Ann’s daughter told Ann’s granddaughter, her granddaughter said she was the same person. Sex never comes up with children, but Ann always gets questions from adults. 

00:21:47	Question: How did you answer that?
	Answer: The doctor asked Ann Marie if she had an orgasm, and Ann explained the difference as more of an earthquake now, as opposed to a volcanic eruption. Ann Marie sees her doctor once a year, and he checks her hormones and prostate. Ann Marie had begun developing boobs when she was younger, and they put her on a series of shots that she assumes was testosterone. 

00:24:19	Question: How has your family been for support?
	Answer: Jane has been fantastic. Jane’s brother was a bit reluctant, and Ann Marie no longer speaks to her sisters. She is glad she doesn’t have to do the manual work anymore. 
00:25:46	[no question]
	Answer: Ann’s aunt lives next door, and has been a nurse for 40 years. She told Ann that she has never seen anyone in Ann’s position. Ann’s mother passed in 1994, and Ann’s father is still alive. He did not approve of Ann’s marriage with Jane, and Ann went up there to tell him, and he only spoke about himself. He didn’t really understand. Ann left, shook hands, and hugged him, and that was the last time they spoke, 
00:27:35	Question: How was your childhood?
	Answer: Ann had some issues in her childhood. She had a fort at Half Moon Lake, where she would dress up by herself. Ann’s mother would drink a lot, and Ann went by her grandparents every weekend. Ann was the apple of her grandmother’s eye. She thinks that her grandmother would have had a hard time with her transition. Ann’s biggest regret is that she waited so long to transition, but thinks it may not have worked out so well if she had. 
00:29:09	[no question]
	Answer: Ann still gets coffee with the friends that she did when she was Art. One gentleman had a tough time with her using ladies room, and Ann asked if he could see her using men’s room dressed as she was.  He said he never looked at it that way
00:30:51	[no question]
	Answer: According to Ann, adults fantasize about what goes on behind closed doors, but what goes on in her house hasn’t changed.
00:31:40	Question: How was it to be in a position of strong visibility in community?
	Answer: Ann had to make a living, and was too young to retire. Things are good now, but when she first transitioned, everyone that she used to talk to at the post office turned their back on her. She started to chat with them, and they started to talk to her. Ann confronted them, and they said they didn’t know what to say to her. Ann has always made the first move. Ann is sure many people talk behind her back. Jane won’t hold her hand, doesn’t want to make people feel uncomfortable, but Ann feels uncomfortable when she sees straight people being intimate in public. 
00:34:32	Question: Have things been good with Jane?
	Answer:  Ann indicates that everything has been good, and that sometimes she feels worse for Jane than Jane does. Jane is a strong woman.
00:34:45	Question: What have you been doing with the community center?
	Answer: At the community center, Ann is calling the meetings. She created a separate committee for PRIDE. They closed the physical space because they found a new place that was more times the rent, and they didn’t have fundraising to keep it going. The center is trying to raise enough funds to pay one years rent at another facility, and will give students from the university credits to volunteer at the center. Ann can’t judge the past president because she was doing really well, but got promoted at work and that was more important. Ann tried to do some stuff, but received no support or help. When they ran out of money, they donated everything, 
00:37:04	[no question]
	Answer:  Ann feels like she has to keep the board active, and won’t let it die. Chris Ionanne died of leukemia last year, and he organized it and started it in 2001. Ann says that most Trans people don’t join center, but she is mentoring some. She is working on four Trans people and mentoring four others, but internet is dominant. Wisconsin says one man and one woman can marry. A friend wanted her to testify in court, but Ann denied because she doesn’t want her and Jane’s marriage license challenged.
00:38:49	[no question]
	Answer: Most of Ann’s clients do not know she is Trans, but some previous clients do. Ann is doing electrolysis and insurance, 
00:39:25	Question: Would you say there is a strong trans community?
	Answer:  Ann states that the Trans community seems like it is fine. She is working with some friends, one in particular that has been married 20 years, and can’t deal with it anymore. His wife left, but came back and wants to work things out. His wife is a dominant person and beats on him. She wants a masculine figure, and wants to introduce him as her husband. Ann would throw in her influence, but doesn’t want to alienate him.
00:42:04	Question: Do a lot of people see you as a role model?
	Answer: Ann Marie indicates that many people do see her as a role model. 
00:42:08	Question: How does that feel?
	Answer: Ann Marie says it feels weird, but she is a social person, and would help anyone. She is part of the State Action Planning Group for HIV and AIDS, and she is the only Trans on the committee. People say she is level-headed and rounded, but she doesn’t see herself as a mentor. 
00:43:16	Question: How have you seen awareness of AIDS?
	Answer: AIDS started with the epidemic in 1983, and now it costs a thousand dollars to just get medication. According to Ann Marie, a lot of the outbreak is with African American males between the age of 19 and 26 in Milwaukee because they will get kicked out if they tell their family, and their partner will not have sex with them if they tell their partner, so they keep it quiet. 
00:45:10	Question: How has Eau Claire responded to AIDS?
	Answer: Ann Marie is good friends with a man who has AIDS, and he is her first exposure. The ARCW asked Ann Marie to speak at AIDS Day because she is a representative on the state level. Ann is finding out more people with AIDS, but it is generally kept quiet. 
00:47:22	Question: Do you feel safe in Eau Claire? 
	Answer: Ann Marie does feel safe; however, she is a sixth degree black belt. 
00:47:28	Question: Do you think everyone feels that way?
	Answer: Although it happens once in a blue moon, Ann Marie has heard of an attack of a gay man around Christmas time. Ann Marie says that you can’t go to a straight bar and be flamboyant, you don’t belong there, and you must always be aware of your surroundings. 
00:49:35	Question: Where are places in the community where people can feel safe?
	Answer: Scooters, Livery, Mogie’s, Stella’s are all bars that are friends. John Mokinson owns almost all of downtown, and although he is straight, he hangs out at Scooters.
00:50:37	Question: What is the relationship of Scooters and the community?
	Answer: Although some people don’t feel comfortable with Scooters, the relationship is overall accepting. 
00:51:15	Question: Have you stayed in contact with many friends from high school?
	Answer: Ann Marie has always stayed in contact with her friends, and is involved with the reunions. One old friend called her to hear her story, and Ann is happy to explain for educational purposes. When Ann speaks at colleges, Jane will come with. 
00:52:57	Question: Do people seem ready to learn?
	Answer: According to Ann Marie, people are definitely ready to learn.  Ann Marie was a student’s project, and when asked to come back, the teacher’s husband was extremely curious. Ann Marie says it isn’t the same until you know someone personally. 
00:54:26	Question: What events are going on with the community center?
	Answer:  There are not many events going on with the community center, but August 4th is PRIDE.
00:54:43	Question: Seems like there is a lot going on with that.
	Answer: There are a lot of things going on. A lady is working on circus acts and many things for this year. 
00:55:05	Question: What events have you done with PRIDE?
	Answer:  There is an ice cream social the day after PRIDE, and last year, PRIDE was the largest it has been in a long time. 
00:55:48	Question: How long has PRIDE been in Eau Claire?
	Answer: PRIDE has been around since the 80’s, but it died off in the mid- 90’s. Chris Ionanne started it back up, and lit the fire. 
00:56:14	Question: Were you involved in LGBTQ community before your transition?
	Answer: Ann Marie was not involved because she didn’t want anyone to think anything, but she did have a large gay group that she worked with. 
00:57:17	Question: They said in therapy they made it seem like you were going to lose everything?
	Answer: While in therapy, they want to prepare you, and in most cases, you lose a lot. When in Arizona, Ann Marie was asked to speak to another transgender person, and the woman was a doctor that lost everything. Before surgery, you have to be in therapy for three months, hormones for at least a year, and live the lifestyle. If you go to Thailand, and have the money, they will do it. Ann Marie believes therapy is necessary. 
00:59:44	Question: What options are there for a trans in Eau Claire?
	Answer: According to Ann Marie, there are not many options for a transgender person in Eau Claire. She sees an endocrinologist in Minnesota, and went to Dr. Meltzer in Arizona for surgery. It takes an enormous amount of money to look like a woman, and Ann is asked why she would want to give up first class for second class. 
01:02:13	Question: Why would someone say it’s a mans world, why would you go from one to two?
	Answer: Ann Marie used to be a prominent figure when she was a man, and men think they rule the world. She had a lot of notoriety. 
01:03:12	Question: What have been different responses?
	Answer: Ann Marie loves the attention she is getting as a woman. People will pull her chair out and open doors. Jane said that she now fully understands why Ann Marie treated her in ways that she has never gotten treated by another man. Ann Marie is very sympathetic, caring, and chivalrous to Jane. 
01:04:35	[no question]
	Answer: Ann Marie always felt intimidated in male bathrooms. If someone came next to her, she would shut down and have to finish in a stall. When someone would ask about it, she would make it into a joke. 
01:05:26	Question: What are different memories you have before transition?
	Answer: Ann Marie says that she can’t lift as much, and her chest has decreased in size. She used to be able to lift a part of the dock for her pontoon by herself, but can’t do it anymore. In 1976 a MTF tennis player, Dr. Renee Richards, wasn’t allowed to play in the national playoffs, but proved with her doctors that she is not as strong as a man after her transition.
01:08:16	Question: You said you are on testosterone?
	Answer: Ann Marie is on a 2% testosterone cream, but she doesn’t want it to be stronger because she doesn’t want her body hair to grow back. Different hormonal setting set hair growth off.
01:09:14	Question: What services do you offer?
	Answer: Ann Marie offers waxing, electrolysis, and hair removal wherever you want it done. She works on both men and women. 
01:10:26	Question: Do trans patients come in here too?
	Answer: Ann Marie does work on men, and is one of two businesses that works on both genders. Most of Ann’s female clients know she is transgender, and they don’t mind.
01:11:05	Question: Have you normally gotten a response that no one cares?
	Answer: Ann Marie states that no one cares. 
01:11:12	Question: Is it just a visibility thing?
	Answer: Ann Marie indicated that it could be a visibility thing.
01:11:21	Question: How have you seen the LGBT community change?
	Answer: Ann Marie indicates that only a few “doers” join and a lot of “joiners.” She would like to get more ladies involved because men don’t get much done. 
01:12:41	Question: Have you seen a difference response to your transition between men and women?
	Answer: Ann gets more hugs from women, but men have a hard time understanding. They are scared to death of having their penis removed. At the age of 27, Ann tried to castrate herself in her office.
01:14:22	Question: Is that how you describe it? As a tumor?
	Answer: Ann Marie does describe it as a tumor. She tells classes to close their eyes and imagine themselves as the opposite gender, and goes on to say they can’t because they have always felt right. Right now it is difficult to do female- to- male surgery, and Ann was lucky to heal so well with hers. 
01:17:20	Question: Have there been any other moments where you felt that disconnect with your gender?
	Answer: When Ann Marie was Art, she would do everything as masculine as possible to prove herself. Ann Marie believes that the doctor did a great job, but would have liked to experience common things women go through.
01:19:59	[no question]
	Answer: Ann Marie states that Jane asked only two questions to Ann Marie, and one was, “Do you want a man after surgery?” Ann Marie indicated that she didn’t, she just wanted to be congruent with how she feels.
01:20:36    Question: Do you feel congruent now?
                  Answer: Ann Marie does feel congruent. 	
01:20:50	Question: It’s great to have Jane here. 
	Answer: Ann Marie wouldn’t know what to do with Jane. They have been together more than they have been apart, and what goes on in the bedroom is just fine between them.
01:21:40	Question: How are your kids?
	Answer: Ann Marie states that her family is doing well.
01:21:43	Question: What are they up to? 
	Answer: Her son is around and does work for them, and her daughter is out east with three kids and a cosmetic business.
01:23:13	Question: What else do you want to talk about?
	Answer: Ann Marie indicates that we covered everything. 
01:23:23	Question: How do you spell the doctor’s name that did your surgery?
	Answer: MELTZER
01:23:55	Question: Chris’s last name as well.
	Answer: IONANNE
01:24:10	Question: Some of the bars.
	Answer: MOGES
01:24:43	Question: How would you like to see change in the community?
	Answer: Ann Marie would like to see more involvement in the community. No one would show up for the forums at the community center, whereas, there used to be tons of involvement. 

01:25:49	End of First Interview Session

End of Oral History #XXX