UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #357
SHALALA, DONNA E.

SHALALA, Donna E. (1941- )
Chancellor
At UW: 1988-1993

Interviewed: 1988	
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 58 minutes

Problems faced: need to restore Madison's links with state, modernize management and increase fund raising; Action taken to solve them; Importance of greater commitment to undergraduate education;  Relationship with System administration and regents; Relationship with legislators; Expectations about budget; Extension situation; Need for strong faculty governance.

Tape 1/Side 1

00:00:03	Job described differently from what turned out to be.  Feeling that UW-Madison had slipped due to Merger, and Legislature's feeling that Madison had lost roots in Wisconsin.  DS did not find it true.  DS does not think problem is with System, but with Madison.  Leadership had not solved it due to other problems.  

00:02:32	Had not increased staff enough to cope with new enrollment, and teaching load decreased.  Let enrollment increase too much.  Yet failed keep faith with state—contract is to give quality undergraduate education.  Talked too much about role as research university.  Alienated people in state.  Legislature ceased to identify with UW-Madison.  Insiders could not see that; outsiders can.   

00:04:54	DS listened to legislators; did poll.  Poll confirmed what legislators said.  People in state care about how UW-Madison treats undergraduates.  Enthusiastic response to announcement of new attention to undergraduates.

00:05:33	Failure to raise big money.  Five years behind peer institutions. 

00:06:13	Top rank faculty but old fashioned management.  Registration, for example.  No management hierarchy at Madison.  Even library modernization behind.  Madison poured resources into salaries and equipment.  Did not think about undergraduate classrooms, etc. 

00:07:52	Campus run by senior academic staff not part of hierarchy, not supervised by chancellor or deans.  Faculty control of salaries and tenure.  

00:08:54	All these she did not expect, but fixable.  Race issue true on all campuses.  UW-Madison not way behind on solution, took leadership.  DS likes to do that.  Michigan still in uproar.  Distracted people from her real goals.  Furious not dealt with before she came; time limits, early February, impossible.  Risky to institution and to her.  Madison Plan her idea. 

00:12:15	DS thinks the important touchpoint is not research, i.e. outreach, but treatment of young people.  Will be Wisconsin's leaders.  Most important role for UW-Madison.  Legislature pleased about registration, freshman orientation, kids getting into classes—most important.  

00:15:08	System loved it too.  Madison not taking students from other campuses.

00:15:46	Relation of all this to fundraising.  People like winners.  Most alumni are in state.  Irving Shain had UW-Madison during difficult years.  Time to be upbeat.

00:17:17	Relations with regents and System.  Their concerns were mismanagement, bad community relations, and racial problems. Have not turned her down yet.  Cohen managed UW way through registration.  DS has had no trouble with Shaw.  System does not have ideas.  Shaw's first budget is based on Madison's priorities.  How she handles this.  She knows how to maneuver systems.  Madison has to identify own needs.  They would not have hired her if wanted to level Madison.  DS thinks System's impositions—Centers of Excellence etc.—are irrelevant.  Small things.  Big thing is, is Madison getting proper share of pie.  DS would have said no to Centers of Excellence.  Deans did not know how to manage System because were here before.  DS knows have to live with it, how to do that. 

00:22:56	Physical plant.  DS insisted on getting two new buildings.  Regents will buy it.  Weinstein?  DS used to difficult people.  Uses steamroller approach.  Regents know reputation of System rests on Madison. Reports?  DS told Shaw wanted them reduced.  Trani?  DS does not worry about that.  Madison has to learn to say no.  

00:25:22	Extension.  Very complicated.  A mess.  Flexible money in Extension means permanent tension.  Need to do own outreach.  Need positive attitude.  Will be difficult for deans until DS can deliver on the budget.  Have not seen any money yet—that is what they need.  Money is the only test of chancellors.

00:27:41	Breakfasts once a week with legislators—Gryzinski, Travis, Nelson.  Too many town and gown problems.  Madison the whipping boy of state.

00:28:57	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:29:04	(From voice)  True of town, too.  No one in Bascom had lists of influential people in town.  Networks are critical.   

00:29:51	Not worried about state revenues, budget should be okay. Contacts with Tommy Thompson.  Supportive of University.  More upbeat than UW-Madison people are.  Has appointed Gustafson.

00:30:53	Regents not people of stature, not used to corporate boards, do not know not to micromanage.  Public boards different from private boards.  Top management of board are inexperienced, never on boards before, major event of lives being on board. Nicholas good, several others, but not dominant, not secure.  You live with it.   Social relations.  Has had them over to her house.  Coordinate with Mary Ann Shaw.  No competition.  Shaw has the seat on AAU, UW-Madison on Big Ten.  Shalala does not need it.  Knows all the leaders, can talk on phone.  Not critical to University, though would be nice.  One reason she got position because national leader. 

00:36:12	Pat Boyle, complicated, turf fighter.  But we are Madison; no one can destroy our role.  Messy situation in terms of authority, may have to get System to intervene.  Always problems when no clear lines of authority.  Original legislation not drafted carefully.   How serious is problem?  Cannot be straightened out.  Regents will not deal with it, because do not trust Madison to do it.  But can get around it.  We have "thugs"—Joe Corry, Leo Walsh. 

00:39:14	Budget planning process.  There is not one.  Chancellors in the end cut the deal.  DIN committees do not count. Other chancellors find her collegial.  She's agreeing to their giving honorary degrees, does not act arrogant.  They want public money for research.  Madison uses private money.  DS will not support state giving other campuses research money, and regents will not give it, cannot afford it. 

00:42:03	Putting hierarchy into place to control academic staff.  Policy issues need to be identified by faculty.  Admissions for instance.  Needs policy, e.g. have just raised out of state admissions.  The capital projects process is bureaucratic, not related to institution's priorities.  Parking—decisions made by staff.  Myth that city would not permit more parking space.  Not true. 

00:44:19	Importance of football.  Economic impact as well as effect on alumni support.  Has to make athletic program part of University. 

00:46:07	Cultivation of business community.  Yes.  Going to redo UIR, energize it.  Engineering college centerpiece of UIR.  Want broaden so not just engineering.

00:47:33	Faculty governance—good at important levels—curriculum, hiring, tenure.  Divisional committees good.  Issue with professional schools.  Do departments do best to keep good people, e.g. middle group? University Committee does not have strong views.  DS used to strong faculty organizations.  People tiptoeing here.  Likes to be talked back to.  Faculty's problem if UC not strong.  Going to hire new people—the Graduate School and L&S deans, and new academic vice chancellor, to put a leash on DS.  Does not think regents will want say in choices.  Will not change structures.  

00:52:20	Takes Futures Committee seriously.  If clear voice, DS will pay attention.  Meets with them regularly.  

00:53:41	Madison Plan and faculty governance.  Got new positions from state to pay for appointments.  No department has ever talked to her.   No interference from her.  Will not get involved in tenure decisions.  Policy is, will make resources available.  Up to departments.  Takes care of issue of credibility.  Departments do not trust deans.  Offer positions only for tenure appointments—senior level people.  Incentives.

00:57:53	End of interview. 

END