UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN-MADISON ARCHIVES 
ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

Interview #344
MONROE, MARGARET E.

MONROE, Margaret E. (1914-2004)
Professor of Library Science; Director of Library School
At UW: 1963-1981

Interviewed: 1988	
Interviewer: Laura Smail
Length: 3 hours, 2 minutes

Appointment as director of Library School; Building up School; National revolution in libraries and resulting availability of funding; Growth of information science; Search for faculty; Move to new building; Student revolt and change in faculty approach to teaching; Student protest era; Retirement; Research; UW-Milwaukee's library school; Effects of UW Merger; Faye McBeath Institute on Aging: research, faculty and funding; More on training of Library School students.

Interview Session (Janurary 28, 1988): Tapes 1-4 
Tape 1/Side 1

Time	Keywords
00:00:00	Start of Interview/Interviewer’s Introduction

00:00:24	Why she took the job.  Muriel Fuller in Extension 1962.  Had taught courses in library school.  Rachel Schenk wanted quit as director.  Fuller asked MM would she be interested.  Interviewed by Ed Young, frank talk.  Knew Wilson Thiede.  Someone from adult education came to hear her talk.  She shook like a leaf.

00:04:13	Driving here.  Stop in Janesville.  1963 era of change.  Library School barely accreditable, told in Washington.  Would not have been accredited if MM not coming.  When MM gave up her directorship way up in national ratings.  In 1970 15 in faculty, up from 5 in 1963.  Enrollments way up.

00:07:02	In Sterling Court.  Classroom on third floor hot or freezing.  Library School library a good one, was in basement.  Bernice Gibson in charge.  Building change necessary--250 students by 1970, two specialized degrees added.

00:09:12	Change easy and enormous.  Free funds.  Letters and Science and Ed Young very supportive.  Doremus also.  Had resources.  Growth also in field of librarianship and library education.  Had Carnegie Corporation funding via Extension for AIM program.  Revolutionized way dealt with cataloguing.  Need master details but also theory.  500 page book.  John Ball revised the course.  $10,000. Cooperative grant with the Department of Education. 

00:13:13	1965-66 revolution at national level in library science and libraries.  Great Society, Office of Education.  Got fellowships for MAs but especially for Ph.D.s.

00:14:27	Took awhile to get approval from Office of Education.  Needed more faculty.  The funds also supported research.  When funds dried up, still had research faculty.  Required campus growth as well.

00:16:02	Librarianship changing too.  Incorporates information science.  Confusion of terms information science vs. science of information.  First, art of handling information.  Began in conference in Brussels.  First people to begin thinking about it.  Two terms didn't settle down until 1964 or '65.  Special Libraries Association was in vanguard.

00:20:40	Search for faculty.  Scarce as hen's teeth.  Got high salaries.  Interviewed 4 or 5 people.  Got one but couldn't teach.  So decided stay with library based people.  Rachel Schenk implored MM not change name of school and she didn't.  Jane Carter did.  Necessary.

00:23:42	Status of public school librarians improving so could recruit high quality students.  Recruiting faculty.  Library School recruited wives who were close to Ph.D.s.  Study by School of Social Work showed altruism of men in law, and women in library schools head and shoulders above in academic ability.

00:28:50	End of side.

Tape 1/Side 2

00:28:52	MM's year at Rutgers, study of information science. 

00:33:20	Q. re computer equipment.  UW behind because didn't have expert faculty until funding had ebbed.  Had access to campus centers.

00:35:00	Pace of change horrendous.  Many difficulties.  Federal funding helped pay new building.  1965-71 on Henry Mall.  Moving the school library.  Dorothea Scott's help in first move.

00:41:21	Building research capacity.  Difficulty of getting people to change fundamental approach they are used to.  The faculty in 1963.  

00:46:22	How MM got existing faculty to change.  Began getting vigorous aggressive students, wouldn't learn by rote, wanted understand.  A meeting students called to express dissatisfaction.  How handled.  Receptivity of faculty.  Resolution of problems.   Clodius's remark at reception later. First disruption on campus.

00:55:44	End of side.

Tape 2/Side 1

00:55:45	[a bit missing from tape copy.  Is talking about timing of change.]   New people the yeast in making change.  Fortunate when comes from students.  More details on revolt.  The student protest era.  Fleming's superb handling of it, also Henry Herman.

01:03:55	An event that radicalized MM.  MM thinks library school played a calming role.

01:06:02	TAs in Library School had no gripes.  Refused to strike.

01:07:005	MM left directorship year before moved to Helen White.  Was tired.  Got big research grant.  Tried be invisible.

01:09:58	Had done research while director.

01:11:08	Study of disadvantaged.  Talking to black librarians.

01:13:23	Need to do research in field to teach effectively.

01:13:58	Other research.  Retired early.  Worn out.  Got summer research leave.  Took 3 years to revive.  Work doing now.

01:18:22	Relations between Library School and Memorial Library.  Relations with Madison Public Library a bit touchy.  

01:24:57		End of side.

Tape 2/Side 2
 
01:24:59	(from voice).  1963.  Rachel Schenk had worked with undergraduate library programs in Wisconsin State Universities.  When raised requirements for M.A. gave exemption exams, many WSU students failed.  Bred ill will.  MM went to various schools to discuss.

01:27:22		When MM came was told would be responsible for UW-Milwaukee library.  Milwaukee Public Library wanted separate school there.  Within a week MM went to Milwaukee, met vice chancellor.  Vevier wanted MM start, then they would go on own.  MM wanted discuss with Madison faculty.  Vevier furious.  May have had Harrington's backing.  One of strains in early years, Harrington had technique of setting campus against campus, department against department.  MM thought wasteful.  His idea--competition creates excellence.  MM found notes of talk with Ed Young, all was laid out.

01:33:47	Faculty decided offer course from time to time but Rachel Schenk took organizing position on Milwaukee Campus after retired.  Some faculty did go over.  Very strenuous.

01:36:15	Oshkosh episode.  Created hard feelings.

01:38:39	MM on merger. Thinks departments would have cooperated but top administration promoted rivalry. Knows three departments that had meetings. Surge was on and then was cut off.

01:44:07	Oshkosh program pretentious.  UW-Milwaukee not.

01:45:30	Graduate School Committee on recruitment of minorities.  MM deeply interested.  Library School always tried recruit minorities.  Social life for minority person very difficult in Madison.  Committee didn't meet often, not an aggressive chair.  Never got off ground.  Committee member’s comment on women, whether to consider them beneath the umbrella of “minorities.”

01:52:14		End of side.

Tape 3/Side l

00:00:02	Faye McBeath Institute on Aging organized 1973 to support work in gerontology at research and practical levels.  Martin Loeb director, Vivian Wood considered associate director, conducts interdisciplinary research on aging, with focus on women.  MM participated in research project on older women 1978-79.  Family Resources, Psychology, and Library Schools involved in this research.

00:03:20		Anecdote about research questions. Interdisciplinary structure of Institute on Aging.  Dr. Everett Smith of Medical School advanced preventive medicine practices through McBeath Institute programs and longitudinal study on health benefits of exercise for men and women age 39-65.  Interdisciplinary efforts worked due leadership of Vivian Wood.  Responsible for involving MM.  Took two years to overcome reluctance as a librarian to serve older adults on a separate basis.  

00:09:40		MM's research on use of media in nursing homes 1974-75.  Nursing homes under much criticism so could speak only to residents approved by administrators.  At same time surveyed Public Library services to older adults in Wisconsin, updating study done in Cleveland five years earlier.  

00:12:04	After year of work on these projects, submitted proposal to Institute on Aging for funding to prepare experienced, degree librarians in service of older adults.  Program continued two years, until no longer feasible due to drain on funding for educational and community services in Public Libraries in 1976-78.  

00:14:56	To compensate MM initiated campus Extension courses taught on weekends.  Content of Extension courses.  MM's research on informational needs of older people, "The Life Tasks of Aging."  Develops into book written year after retiring, The Challenge of Aging.

00:17:07		Role of Institute on Aging in involving and supporting MM's interest in elderly.

00:18:28	Review of Institute by founders, the McBeath Foundation of Milwaukee.  Pressure departments on campus to make firm commitments of needs of aging.  University support declines after funding from Foundation cut off.  MM interested in operational style of review team; admired leadership of Catherine Cleary.  Commitment levels of various departments.

00:22:59	David Featherman of sociology department succeeds Martin Loeb.  Leadership likely to move to medical field.  Tension in Institute between medical and human services emphasis.

00:24:00	Review team recommends discontinuation of support so work will become institutionalized in University.

00:25:44	Value of Institute, Vivian Wood.

00:28:14	Colloquia continue among institute members.  Martin Loeb fund established after death.  Unsure what will happen when such funding runs out.  Atmosphere today (1988) quite different.

00:29:07	End of side. 

Tape 3/Side 2

00:29:09	Since retiring MM has come to feel special service to older adults dangerous.  Redirecting efforts, ex., the two year program at Senior Center, "The Challenge of Aging Society."

00:30:25	Interdisciplinary research resulting from Institute on Aging.  Mary Wiley most involved due roots in both social work and urban policy.

00:31:27	Grant proposal of 1977 never funded due politics.  MM's major question removed from survey plan.

00:33:15	TAA dispute with Library School over personnel matter in federally funded Special Project on Reading.  TAA's first major victory.

00:37:16	Ratio of women to men in Library School 5:1.  MM's efforts to recruit more men.

00:41:31	Interdisciplinary study at UW campus.  MM made use of School of Education and Social Work School; increasingly the School of Journalism.

00:44:04	Coordinating Committee on Higher Education.  Committee of library educators from state and University of Wisconsin systems formed through this group.  Dominated by representatives from state institutions, draw up plan for creating library master's degree programs in state universities.  Programs fade into preliminary preparation programs.

00:51:07	Practical experience of Library School faculty.  Value of practical experience combined with research expertise.  University of Chicago's successful library founded by sociologists and political scientists.

00:54:44	End of tape.

Tape 4/Side 1

00:54:46	LS brings up possibility of problems due lack of distinction in UW program between public and academic library work.  Mary Woodworth of UW faculty supported channeling for school librarians; separation of preparation for college and public librarians not a widely considered option.

01:01:03	Outside hours in library no longer required of students.  In 1920's and 1930's had supervision needed to maintain such programs.  Field project course at UW offers option for practical experience.

01:05:07	Connections between the University libraries and Library School.  Not much formal reciprocity.  Lou Kaplan taught at Library School after retiring from the University library.  State Archivist taught at Library School, informal lectures.  Jack Clarke in Library School most familiar with University system.  Tension between local libraries and university level library programs.

01:08:34	MM's use of University libraries in retirement.  No comments on computerization of libraries.

01:10:19	End of tape. 

END OF INTERVIEW #344